The Relationship Between Trust, Confidence, & Better Results
In this episode of the Unreal Results podcast, I share some thoughts sparked by the Tactical Strength Coach Annual Training around building trust, getting people out of pain, and improving movement. I unpack what actually builds trust with your clients and why getting results is such an important piece of that relationship. I also challenge the common approach of using movement to correct movement and explore why understanding why the body is moving that way can completely change where you start treatment.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
The three things I believe create trust between practitioners and clients
How a better assessment can improve both your outcomes and your confidence as a practitioner
Why where you start treatment may matter more than the treatment tool you choose
If you want your clients to trust you, you have to be able to help them get results. But getting better results might require changing the way you think about the problem in the first place.
Resources & Links Mentioned In This Episode:
Get on the waitlist for the next cohort of the online LTAP® Level 1 course
Get on the waitlist for the REVitalize Mentorship (2026-2027)
Ep. 125: You're Already Treating The Viscera... You Just Don't Know It
Check out the Swelling Reduction Protocol Course Here!
Learn the LTAP® In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Anna Hartman: Hey there, and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman, and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs and the nervous system on movement, pain, and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in
Hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Unreal Results podcast. It's been a minute, and it was an unplanned minute, um, because life, life got crazy. Um, you know, if you've been here a while, you might know that sometimes I take a few weeks off in the summertime anyways just because everyone sort of has a little bit of a, you know, summer slowdown.
And so I like to take that too. Um- But this year, um, I wasn't actually planning to take a break. Honestly, I hadn't even really thought about it yet. And, um, then my aunt got hit by a truck walking across the street, um, in the crosswalk on a walk sign. Um, she was struck by a F-350, and, um, she ended up passing away from the injuries sustained in that, um, car accident.
And so, um, you know, if you're on my email list or follow me on Instagram, you probably already know I've been, like, in the throes of, um, dealing with that sudden loss and the grief from it. And, you know, and then the compounded grief from all the losses, um, that I've had over the years. That's, that's how grief works, right?
It brings up just the general feelings of loss. And, um, especially, you know, family member loss. Um, my aunt was my sis- my mom's best friend. Um, she helped me and my sister take care of my mom, um, when my mom was dying from lung cancer. And then after my mom died of lung cancer, she sort of resumed, um... My aunt became sort of like a second mom to us.
Well, she'd always been a second mom to us our whole life, but, like, sh- it was in a more important role for her, like a, um, additional Grammy to my nieces. And, uh, yeah, she was, um You know, like I said, it was sudden. She was 77, but, um, she was still doing fairly well with her health, so we definitely weren't expecting to go through that.
And of course, like, no one ever expects to lose someone walking across the street, right? But as I've shared about it, like, wow, like, a lot of people have both been hit by cars walking across the street, as well as had family members or friends whose lives were lost from being, um, struck by a car as a pedestrian.
So, um, it's kinda wild. I mean, I know it can happen to anybody, and I know it can, like, both as the person walking across the street and as the person driving, and so it's just... I'm definitely a little extra cautious, um, in both of those scenarios now. So anyways, um, yeah, I, I ended up, like, just... I had this whole summer planned to, like, create a lot of new courses and content, and I was really excited for the break, and then that just sort of took the wind out of my sails.
And, uh, the last few weeks, I have been feeling better, starting to be more present on the Instagram and just more present for my patients and more present for myself and my family. And so, um, yeah, I'm happy to be back. Um, with that said, you know, I have a lot of ideas for episodes coming up. Um, and, uh, it's always like, "Ooh, what do I wanna talk about?"
But, um, I have a, I have a s- couple subjects I wanna talk about today. But before I get started, I did want to share that, um, coming up in less than a month is the, um pre-sale to the waitlist for the next cohort of the online LTAP Level One course. So if you're not already on the waitlist, you'll want to check the show notes for the link to get on the waitlist because, um, you're going to have first access to get in the course, um, and the most bonuses.
So I always offer bonuses when you sign up for an online cohort, and the waitlist gets extra stuff. So I wanna make sure that if you are-- have been thinking about doing the on- online LTAP Level One or the in-person, um, LTAP Level One, like now is the time to sign up. So speaking of the LTAP Level One in-person courses, I also announced last week via Instagram and my email list, um, I have some new in-person courses up.
So, um, I had not had any on the schedule for the end of the year, um, or 2027 just yet, um, because it's been a little bit slow of getting people into in-courses. As I talk to other, um, education providers across the board, it sort of seems like everybody is like feeling that too, um, which is just, you know, the state of the world, the economy, et cetera.
Um, but I did put a date on for the end of the year, uh, San Diego, of course. So San Diego, come, come to my home and, uh, learn from me, and that is December fifth and sixth. So definitely a few months to, uh, figure out how it fits in your budget, how it fits in your schedule. Um, and December in San Diego, it's like, you know, still pretty beautiful here.
Definitely winter, but winter in Southern California is, uh, much better than winter in a lot of the country. So, um, that is available for enrollment. And then also put up the next in-person course on the East Coast, which is gonna be May 2027. Uh, I think May 22nd and 23rd, if I remember correctly, in Washington, D.C.
at, um, Align DC. Uh, so that's where the last East Coast was, and, um, they were just such wonderful hosts. Chris is amazing. He, um- is the most, the, the host with the most. Uh, he is Greek, and he loves to take care of people through food. And so he ended up grilling and making us lunch both days of the course, and then also, like, cinnamon rolls for breakfast, snacks all day.
He took such phenomenal care of us, um, that I wanted to come back. And so, um, I mean, honestly, I wanna come back just to eat his food. Um, and so we've actually designed the course around that special experience. So if you come to the DC course, um, it will include lunch on both days. And then with that, that means you get to have lunch with me.
So it's an additional, you know, 90 minutes to get to know me more personally, um, ask me questions, and, um, yeah, just break bread together. So I'm super grateful for Chris to offer that. But then with that, um, added piece, we're also limiting the course size to only 16 people. So I think three slots are already taken, so there's only 13 spots left in that course.
I do expect it to sell out. And, uh, yeah, I hope you join me. Plus, I just... Honestly, I just kinda like, I like Washington, D.C. area. So, um, I know it's a little expensive, but, um, it's a great area, super walkable, um, good food, um, good people, uh, lots of airports, so easy to get to train station, you know, even if you're on the, um East Coast and want to ride the train.
So, um, super great location. Um, so I'm super happy to be back there. For my Canadian friends, I'm in talks with someone about a potential course, um, in Vancouver. And, um, it's not on the schedule yet. It's not guaranteed yet or confirmed yet. So if you're dying to get in, um, an LTAP Level 1 course in person and, uh, you're on the, you know, West Coast-ish of Canada or the west side of Canada, um, I would recommend coming to the San Diego course if you can.
But, um, if not, uh, yeah, fingers crossed that that works out. I love Vancouver. Um, but with loving Vancouver, I don't love the cold. I don't love the snow. So, um, that means that it's not gonna be until warmer months. So it's not anytime soon, even if we do put it on the calendar. Um, what else I got? Oh, you can also get into the online course already if you sign up for those in-person courses through the bundle.
Um, but, uh, yeah. Oh, and then, I mean, as I'm talking about the in-person courses, I guess it's fair to talk about too, in September, literally, actually, today is one month out from the LTAP Level 2 course. LTAP Level 2 course is a course for people who have gone through the LTAP level one, and it doesn't matter if you've done the online course or the in-person course of the LTAP level one, you are eligible to come to LTAP level two as long as you have LTAP wonder- level one under your belt in any form.
And, um, so the LTAP level two, the, the premise behind it is further narrowing our assessment, getting even more precise on our assessment. So once the LTAP level one directs you where to go, you know, whether it's viscera, central nervous system, what viscera it is, um, or if it's peripheral neurovascular entrapment, level two helps us to narrow even more.
So i- we further look at how to, um, assess parts of the central nervous system, and then we also look at assessing the thoracic cavity, abdominal and pelvic cavities, and lower extremity with more of a perspective of the container. So we're gonna look at the spine, the ribs, the costovertebral joints, the cervical fascia, the clavicular pectoral fascia, the pelvis, the pelvic floor.
We're going to talk about and explore visceral dermal reflex zones using the skin, the container of the skin, as a way to assess and treat. Um, and then in the lower extremity, we're gonna talk about finally the five to 10% of the time when it is in the lower extremity, that it's the SI joint itself instead of the peripheral nerve entrapment.
So we're going to have even more assessment around SI joint ligaments itself to figure out exactly where on that large ligamentous complex we need to treat. So it's, um, very technique-heavy course, uh, lots of assessment techniques, lots of treatment techniques. It's two days in person only, um, September 19th and 20th in San Diego.
Um, I do not have any LTAP level two course dates on the calendar for 2027. So, um, doesn't mean I won't, it just means it's not on the calendar just yet. So this is the last chance to get in the LTAP level two course until further notice. Um, I would love to see you there. I believe we have, like, six spots left.
Um, and, um, yeah. So if you've taken the LTAP level one, come to the LTAP level two, you're gonna love it. Um, the spine techniques I'm gonna show you I literally learned It was like my first continuing education course ever as a professional, and I still use that, those skills today. So they're like such great spine assessment and treatment tools.
So, uh, I think that's it. Oh, well, along with the L- LTAP level two, if you've gone through the LTAP level one, now's the time to get on the wait list for the Revitalize Mentorship Program. I offer that, um, once per year now, and, um, it's a 12-month mentorship program that you learn a ton of education, but then we really go into integrating the LTAP and this whole organism approach into your practice, sort of getting over the hump of trusting what you feel, improving your confidence, and then there's also a business coaching piece of it too, where I help you with messaging, getting in new patients, because a lot of the time, once you start utilizing the LTAP, you start getting better results, meaning you start discharging patients faster than before, so you have more open spots.
And so we need to know how to get new people in the door. Um, and then, um, yeah, give business coaching for that, um, around messaging, but also business coaching around like doing any online group program products type stuff like that too. So, um, that I, um, is application only and opens in November. So make sure you're on the wait list if you want to hear more information about it.
I don't usually talk about it anywhere outside of in person, of course, but then anywhere, um, other than the email list. So make sure you are on the wait list for that, and I'll make sure Joe links that in the show notes too. So, whew, lots of updates. Oh, the other update, uh, in case you missed on Instagram, I had a birthday.
Um, so my birthday was August 1st, and, um, I turned 46. And, um Honestly, I didn't, I didn't expect it, but I am becoming more okay with being for- 46. How about that? I'm finally accepting I'm in my 40s, um, even though I still was like, "I wish I was 24," in some ways. I definitely don't in other ways. Um, turns out, though, if we're on Mars, I am only 24 and a half, so I'm going to be, um, claiming identiti- identifying as a Martian for a little while so I can just tell people I'm 24.
Uh, anyways, I had a great birthday. Um, my... One of my favorite musicians, Zach Bryan, was actually in San Diego that weekend, so I went to his concert on my birthday to celebrate, and it was phenomenal. Literally, literally, uh, one of my favorite concerts, best concerts. Of course, I'm biased 'cause I love him already, but it was awesome.
Um, also went to, uh, this past weekend, went to Noah Kahan. Um, I was preparing to be sad. Good, good news. I don't really listen to the lyrics of music when I listen to music. I mean, I... Maybe that's a hot take, but, um, I just love the music part of it and the entertainment part of it, and he delivered. That, it was also an amazing concert, so super glad I went to that.
Um, but other than that, just been, like I said, getting back into the swing of things from spending some time giving myself grace and resting, and, um Uh, things are picking up again for my Navy SEAL candidate guys. Um, so I have some fresh bodies in that realm, um, I'm treating. And, um, I'm feeling actually on that note, um, because I've talked about it on the podcast before, about as I've added that population of in-person patients to my schedule, it's been hard for me to, um, figure out where my boundaries were around appointments and visits per week, especially with my priority being my NFL athletes, my, like, professional athlete clients, as well as my education business.
And so, um, I am proud of myself that I have consistently maintained some boundaries with these guys and, uh, have limited myself to 10 to 14 visits per week max, but not exceeding three per day. And, uh, I'm feeling good about it. Um, and I've also decided to not have more than four per class that they have in just to make sure that, um, I don't have to exceed those boundaries when they go through, uh, their most physical pha- phase, and, um, I run out of space to be able to help them.
So anyways, don't know if you cared about that, but I think it's something that we all struggle with. Actually, I know it's something we all struggle with because I talk to the, um, practitioners in my courses and, um, in my mentorship group about this a lot, of, um, taking care of yourself and only doing things the way you want to do things and the way it, that it feels good for you instead of doing things for our people.
Because, and doing things for them because it's what they want. First, it needs to be what you want and then what they want. So, um, it's a really important part of the boundary piece, and so I just wanted to report I'm human too. I also struggle with it, but I'm doing, um, a really good job of it lately. So should be celebrated Um, anyways, so the topic for today actually, um, I'm getting distracted by my bracelets.
They are a little too tight, but I, I can't undo the clasp on them unfortunately right now. Uh, anyways, I am, um, currently this week taking or signed up for the, um, Tactical Strength Coach Annual Summit or training, I guess it's called, through the NSCA. Um, I am a certified strength and conditioning specialist and, um, have been for the last 23 years and, um, I have CEUs due at the end of the year and, um, I always like to try to use that, um, time period as an opportunity to take some actual strength and conditioning courses.
Um, and so this year I decided to do the tactical one because one, uh, it's the end of the year and I was like, "Shoot, I need CEUs." Two, I was like, "Oh, actually this is gonna be perfect," because I've been working with so many more tactical athletes lately. Um, and, um It's also something I'm passionate about, and so I wanted to, you know, kind of just...
I thought it would be a great opportunity to see what people were talking about in those industries right now. Um, and, um, I think what I also like about those industries is that they tend to be a little bit more on the pulse of holistic, whole body, whole organism healthcare than, um, some of the other industries.
And so that really resonates with me because that is more of my approach. Um, so doing that this week, it's obviously there's the rest of today and then tomorrow. It started on Monday, um, afternoon. Um, I do wish I was there in person because, um, some of the, some of the education, um, blocks that I were interested were only available as, like, in-person education versus, like, what's available on the live stream.
But the live stream's been good. Again, it's been really good to, like, hear from people in those worlds. But the overlying theme so far I've, like, picked up on, um, is a lot of the operators and, um, tactical athletes are, um, in pain. So first and foremost, the job is to get them out of pain and get them moving better.
So a lot of the coaches have brought up that as the primary way to treat someone's pain of getting them moving better. And then the other piece is, um, a big part of the conversation, especially for the people in the military world, it seems like, is, um, getting, creating, um, or, like, the soft skills of getting the athletes to trust you, right?
To, um, trust you and, like, bring you in as part of the team and that kind of thing. So, um, I wanted to just share my thoughts around those pieces because, um Yeah, I've just been thinking about them and they've been on my mind, and I think they're important pieces. And I think, um, there's some skills that I teach in my courses that, that support that stuff.
So, um, the first off, I'm gonna talk about the, in one sense, easier one to talk about, which is the trust piece. I think when it comes to... And this is okay too, my perspective is from an athletic training standpoint, not as a coach. I do recognize that as a coach, when you are s- put in a situation to be training someone, it's a long-term thing.
You're trying to get them, um, bought into a program that you've told them might take six months. And so, um, it's... I, I want to say that I recognize that. But it's also important for the athletic trainers, the physical therapists in these departments, in these, um, commands to also be able to understand where, how to build trust.
And, um, fundamentally, I think it c- boils down to three things. The first one is authenticity and, like, being yourself. Um, I think that is easier said than done sometimes, especially when you walk into a situation where you feel like you have to prove yourself and you feel like, um, you already don't fit, and so we tend to be kind of performative.
And so I think that is where, like, doing the personal development work of, like, understanding that, like, who you are at this moment, like, you belong, you're enough, and, um, it's okay to not have all the answers is important. I think most of the time when you can openly be like, "I don't know, um, but I'm willing to learn," people value that and instantly gain trust from you because it comes across authentic.
And so, like, when you come into a new job setting like that, I think there is a tendency for people to be like, want to prove themselves and want to show that they are going to be a valuable employee and a valuable part of the team and have so much to offer. And I think, um, it's important for you to step back and, like, talk to the people who already work there and observe what they're doing and, like, see how things operate before you start dropping in all the ways you can make them better.
Um, that kind of thing. So I think that's a piece of it. Um, be authentically you, be patient, and do some personal work around being comfortable being authentically you wherever you are. And then the second piece being, um, integrity. Um, the integrity piece of like basically I think the most important thing of the integrity piece is like following through on what you say you'll do.
So whether it's like, you know, being on time, whether it's like following through on home exercise program delivery or program delivery, um, following through on, um, you know, basically just doing what you say you're going to do, delivering on the expectations that you have been part of setting forth. I think that's huge.
Um, and then also the third one being, and I think the most important one, especially in the space of the athletic trainers and the physical therapists, um, but also for coaches too, it just sometimes takes a little bit longer, is getting results. So showing the operators, showing the athletes is that you can get them results.
And you only show them that you can get them results not by telling them how smart you are and not by telling them how much experience you have, but by actually getting results. And, and this is where I think it ties back into the ability to be authentic and be yourself. It comes from a level of confidence that you can get results.
So we tend to be performative when we deep down don't feel like we can get results for people, and so we have to be performative and like tell them how we can get results for them and tell them why we know so much and why we should be there and why they should listen to us and like why, why, why, why, as opposed to just showing them, "I can get you results."
So, um
Um This is where I think, you know, what is so important about having a tool like the LTAP comes in is because when you have an assessment like the Locator Test Assessment Protocol that considers the whole organism, the viscera, the nervous system, and the musculoskeletal system, it really helps you lock in on where the priorities are for the body, utilizes the body's intelligence and innate ability to heal itself, and you get results faster.
And I know I talk about this all the time on the podcast, on social media, like in my email list of like what great results I get, and, um, part of that is the type of patient I work with, 100%, the age of the patient I work with, the motivation level of p- p- athletes I work with, the nervous system, like resilience, um, like, and not just resilience, like the, the level of the nervous system, if that makes sense.
They're just wired differently. All of that does matter, 100%. But even myself, I've always worked with professional athletes. My entire 24-year career, I've only worked with professional athletes, and it wasn't until I had an assessment that taught me where to start, right? That was an assessment that allowed me to listen to the body to t- teach me where to start in terms of like where the body's priority was, not where to start based on my bias of whatever system or silo I was operating in, right?
Not because I was like all about the functional movement screen and believed that, like, if they scored zero in the shoulder mo- like, the shoulder was the thing, right? Like, the shoulder mobility thing was, like, the number one priority on the FMS at one time. Whether that still is, I have no idea, but using that as an example.
Um, right? The having an assessment like the LTAP or for me originally before I created the LTAP, it was, uh, the osteopathic general listening and local listening that the Barral Institute taught me. It wasn't until I had that skill that I started to realize that even the good results I was getting, I was probably getting 80% Results, w- meaning like 8 out of 10 people I could always help.
There was 2 out of 10 that I was like, "Ugh," right? Gold standard in the physical therapy industry, if you do a Google search on it or a ChatGPT question on it, is 60%. Six out of 10 patients will get better in eight weeks to eight months, which is still insanely ridiculous from a timeline standpoint, in my opinion.
Uh, that's what I refer to as rehab purgatory. But 60%, right? So even me at 80% considered excellent results. It wasn't until I started implementing the general listening and local listening, which I, you know, that's what I created the locator test assessment protocol after. It wasn't until I did that, that I started getting phenomenal results, meaning like 10 of 10, 9 of 10 consistently across the board, and I wouldn't even say 9 of 10, 10 of 10 across the board.
And not just helping everyone, but triaging them appropriately, getting them what they need, or getting them out the door in less than three visits, one to three visits. That's how I came up with the guarantee one to three visits. It wasn't like I was just like, "I'm gonna pull that... I, I'm gonna snake oil salesman pull the one to three vi- guaranteed to help you, like, out of the ether."
It was, that's what I was noticing in my practice, and I'm like, "Shoot, I'm having all these athletes come in," and what used to take me two weeks, 10 visits, was now taking me one to three visits. The amount of times that I saw someone once and never saw them again, I was like, "What?" And old brain was like, "Oh, I never saw them again?
Though, ah, must have been that 2 out of 10 patient I couldn't help, and they're mad at me. They hate me. I didn't get good results with them. They never came back." But then time after time, I'd see them or, like, reconnect with them, and every single one of them was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I never reached back out after I saw you.
I saw you that one time, and I no longer have back pain. I no longer have knee pain. My shoulder felt great." That started becoming regularly, and I was like, "Holy cow," right? So, so as I got an assessment, like the LTAP, general listening, l- local listening, osteopathic listening, was able to follow where the body's priority was of where to start and do that within a session, multiple rounds, which gave me the sequence of treatment that they needed to sort of fix the problem I also started noticing that trust went up, like, through the roof.
Through the roof. And when trust goes up through the roof like that, what happens is these athletes talk to each other, and then you get trust from other people who have not even met you. And that's when you're coming into a new situation, like these people in the tactical, um, summit are talking to, right?
They're talking about, like, how to, like, break through that trust barrier when you go into a new team. I'm like, when you get results for people, not only do you get the trust of the person you got results from instantly, you instantly get the trust from all of their friends, all of their teammates because of that.
Getting results increases the trust factor a ton. Interesting enough, getting results not only increases the trust fac- factor from the athlete and from, you know, the operator, the athlete, the client, whatever you wanna call them, but it increases trust in yourself to get the results. When you trust yourself to be able to figure things out, your confidence increases.
When your confidence increases, the performativeness that I talked about in the, in the authenticity piece also improves, right? You stop having to be performative because you know, you know no matter who comes, walks in the door, you can get them results. So it's very much all connected, right? And then that goes back to the integrity piece.
So often, and this is actually the inter-- like, interesting to me, so, because nobody is like, nobody's like, "I'm, I'm not gonna have integrity." Like, who would, who would say that? Who would do that, right? Everybody thinks they have integrity. Everybody tries-- Well, I don't... That's, that's a lie. Blanket statements, they don't work, right?
Most people try to operate with integrity, especially most people that I interact with. Um, more-- and most people that I would like to interact with would like to have a similar value of integrity matters. Um, obviously, we all know in the world that is not as common as we would like it to be sometimes.
Now In the physical therapy and athletic training world, the pushback I see online and the pushback I've gotten from some people is when I do say that I can guarantee results in one to three sessions. And the pushback comes from, um, the integrity piece, because oftentimes people don't wanna say that because it feels out of integrity because they don't think it's true.
And they don't think it's true because they've not witnessed it to be true in their practice. I'm like, so I get it. But here's the thing. I say it with confidence and full integrity because I've witnessed it over and over again in my practice, like I said, after I got that shift. Before I learned the LTAP or the osteopathic general listening, before I learned how to listen to the body to see where the body's priority was on where to start treatment, right, directing me to deeper drivers, just directing me to where the body knew that it needed to change things in order to change the dynamic alignment, I didn't get those kind of results, so I wasn't saying that.
Before I was saying one to three visits, I would tell athletes... When I worked at Athletes' Performance, which is now EXOS, I remember telling athletes all the time, "Give me two weeks. Give me two weeks. Come to see me four to five times a week while you're here training." They're training there every day anyway, so that's, that wasn't, like, an inconvenience thing, right?
Like, it was like they're already gonna be there. And I knew, and I could guarantee them if I... And I'd tell them, "If I can't figure it out two, after two weeks, then we need to figure, like, we need to refer you to someone else." And so for me, I've never set a guarantee that wasn't shown to me in actual reality, right?
And so, um, to me, people who push back on my guarantee are people who are kind of outing themselves of the clinician that gets the mediocre results. And there's nothing wrong with that. I, I think that's the thing too, is people are like, look around and be like, "I don't wanna admit that I only get good results for six out of 10 patients."
But I'm like, it, yeah That's exactly the reason why you don't feel confident as yourself as a practitioner, and you feel, you know, it... Like, we go down this s- shame spiral of, like, feeling some sort of way that we're, like, terrible at our job because we don't get these, the results that we wa- we want to get, which is to help everybody.
But the industry is, like, stuck in this mediocrity, and you, like, you think you're the problem. I'm like, "No, the industry is the problem." If you want to do better, you're not the problem. But fixing the problem is like admitting to yourself, and sometimes to other people, that you don't get those kind of results.
And so-- and also not closing yourself up to the opportunity that there might be another way to operate that could get you r- those, th- those results, results. Anyways, I'm obviously off on a tangent, because I feel really passionate about this, like, trifecta of the relationship between, um, authenticity, integrity, and results to build trust, and that it-- this is the foundation of being a calm, confident, go-to practitioner, is you have to have those three things.
But they're all related to each other, and ultimately, at the end of the day, besides just characteristically being a good person who wants to learn and wants to do better for their patients, right? Which is like, that's just like a... I think that is just, like, a core being principle. Um, you have to, you have to get better results.
Like- You gotta be good. So, so that's the first piece. Um, the second-- Well, and for what it's worth, um, what I'm saying and what they were saying, they pretty much just said the same thing. They just didn't emphasize the results piece as much. They did, but didn't, if that makes sense. So, um, the next topic, um, that has come up, and I kind of teased it a little bit during my rant, but this concept of, like, when someone's in pain, the strength coaches that were presenting, they're like all these operators, all these tactical people are imp- they, they realized that it, like, surveyed them, like, when they're, like starting their programs, and they're like, "Okay, here are our goals."
And then the guys or the women, the, the men and women were like, "Uh, yeah, great. That sounds great, but I've had back pain for a million years," or, "I have knee pain. I have shoulder pain," right? They realized that fundamentally everybody was, like, starting out at a broken spot. And so they were like, in order to help them, instead of worrying about their performance measurements, right, their four-mile time or their mile time, like, first step is to get them out of pain.
And a lot of the times, um, most of the time what I've heard in these, um, presentations has been we get them out of pain by changing their movement patterns and teaching them to move better And I heard it, and I get it. I mean, that is, that is the whole premise of all of our industries, and I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Like, when I was at Athletes' Performance and EXOS, we, like, were heading the, the, um, marketing campaign on that, um, along with the other people in the industry like Gray Cook and Shirley Sahrmann and, like, anybody, any guru. Well, I don't wanna say guru. That's, like, almost I don't wanna say guru because they're actually very intelligent, amazing practitioners and, um, PhDs and like, you know, everybody is so smart and that is, that, that is correct to a point.
Um, I don't wanna say it's incorrect because I still care about movement. I still want to improve movement patterns. I do still agree that cleaning up someone's movement is the best way to make sure that, one, they're efficient movers, which efficiency when it comes to like tactical scenarios, so important, um, uh, because of the extra load that they put on themselves, but also the durability component that comes along with efficiency.
But then also, um, because yeah, tissue breaks down and tissue breaks down when it's being faultily loaded and when it's... We're out of good dynamic alignment and we are moving, um, you know, without utilizing the fullest capacities of our joints and our muscles and our, our body as a whole, then things break down faster, right?
Like, yeah, there's been plenty of s- studies to show that. Th- where I diverge, where I disagree is that the fix of getting them to move better is teaching them to move better, right? That's using the output of movement to change their movement, which is, you can do. It's not like you can't do it, and I've talked about this on episodes, right?
And I'll have Joe link them in the show notes, the episode about like you've always been treating the viscera, you just haven't been looking at it that way. Um, that's all about how movement is a helpful i- treatment intervention for visceral mobility and visceral health. Um, but w- I just feel like it's the slowest way to improve movement.
And again, this is, this is based in my anecdotal experience of one of my fav- most favorite things is when I use the locator test assessment protocol or osteopathic listening to direct me to where the body is prioritizing treatment. I can then identify all these objective movement dysfunctions in the body, whether it be a lack of passive mobility and active mobility or just a faulty movement pattern, right?
A wonky looking squat, a squat that's shifted, right? And I had a guy the other day, new patient the other day He squatted and his squat was one of those squats that his trunk dropped down a lot. He shifted over to the opposite side that was painful. He had a rotation in his pelvis and the side of his, you know, problem, his ankle caved in.
Okay. Could I have used the actual squat pattern or broken down the squat pattern and told him, pointed out his movement faults and, and gave him c- cues, both direct and indirect cues, tactical, verbal, right? I could have given him a million cues to correct that squat, and maybe over time he could have corrected it, and maybe over time his complaints would feel better.
Here's the thing, though. He knew he wasn't squatting well. He knew theoretically how to correct it. It was hard for him to correct. Probably would've corrected better if I gave him some mass and some props. But I used the assessment protocol to figure out where to treat on him, and we treated it. Where to treat on him was his central nervous system.
So I treated his central nervous system with my hands, my neural manipulation skills And I then reassessed everything. And when we went back to a squat, what happened? His chest was upright in a more vertical torso position. His squat was deeper. His hip mobility was greater, right? He wasn't moving in his back as much.
He was moving more in his hips. His shift was no longer there. It was a more evenly right to left weight bearing on his feet, and his knees came forward better, and so his feet no longer collapsed. And there was no longer any rotate... Because of that, because his feet now operated similarly side to side, his weight was similar side to side, and he was able to dorsiflex and have hip mobility.
He also, the little bit of rotation he had going on was also eliminated. So I did change his movement pattern, and he did not have any pain. Exactly what these coaches are talking about. Person, the operator is in pain. We wanna change their movement pattern so they get them out of pain, so they, they can train.
When you do it from an output standpoint, takes weeks to months. When you do it from... And I'm not saying manual therapy is better because I could have chosen some self done or movement-based drills around the central nervous system if I wanted and gotten the same result. Because it doesn't matter what treatment tool you use, it matters where you start.
It matters where. It matters where the intervention is. I s- by knowing that his body needed help in his cranial area first because of a central nervous system tension pattern, by addressing that first, as soon as there was now no longer a protection pattern around his nervous system, because the nervous system regulates the peripheral nervous system too, it instantly changed his mobility in his lower extremity and in his trunk and improved the movement pattern because the movement pattern has always been an output.
So I'm just changing the lens of view of how we see this. Do movement patterns matter? Absolutely. Absolutely. Does exercise matter? Absolutely. I still want people to exercise Do I wanna change people's movement patterns in order to help them get out of pain from a musculoskeletal standpoint pain?
Absolutely. Do I want to change their movement pattern to make them more efficient, to improve their durability and decrease their injury potential? Absolutely. But the way I do it is different. Not different in the tool, meaning manual therapy versus exercise, 'cause I use exercise all the time. But different in the way that I look at it.
I don't look at someone's movement pattern of their squat and be like, "You're a shitty squatter. Let's make you move better." I'm like, "Hmm, your squat, it looks kind of shitty. Why is your body choosing that?" That's the question that I want answered. Why is your body deciding that when it needs to squat down, it's choosing that way?
Why is it avoiding certain joints? Why is it avoiding certain positions? Why is it loading itself in that way? What is it avoiding? What is creating this output? That's what I'm asking. And this is why the assessment, like the Locator Test Assessment protocol or the general listening, osteopathic listening is so key because it identifies what the problem is.
As a person who was raised in her career in the performance therapy, performance specialist world, like shit, we invented those words, by the way. The original team at Athlete's Performance, we made that shit up, right? Um I too once looked at someone squat like that and was like, "Your ankle's the problem, your hip's the problem, your core control's the problem, or just you were taught wrong."
I've said all of those reasons And, and they're true to a point. Was his ankle the problem? Yeah, he was limited in ankle mobility. Was his hip the problem? Yeah, he was limited in hip mobility. Was his core control the problem? Yeah, it wasn't reflexively turning on very well because it was too busy keeping his spine in a laterally flexed position to decrease the tension on his cranium.
And so again, were all those things the problem in why he was squatting funky? Yes and no. Yes, but it wasn't just limited mobility because of a structural problem, because of an old ankle sprain. It was limital- limited mobility because the body was choosing to limit it because it wanted to change the output for a reason that is so much more important than we think.
So, um To me, you know, if I could talk to all of these presenters at this conference, I would be like, "Yes, I agree. Let's change their movement pattern to get them out of pain, but also let's do it in the most efficient, quickest, easiest way possible, which is just doing a simple assessment to figure out where to start, and then use whatever tools you want to fix it."
Can still be exercise, can still be movement, doesn't have to be manual therapy Right? Wouldn't we all want that? Wouldn't we all love to shorten the timeline from eight weeks to eight months as being a normal, um, like physical therapy tr- like gold standard to One visit, three visits. I'm seeing this... I saw this guy last week, the one I've give- given as the example, for one visit, and I see him again tomorrow.
So we'll see how his squat looks and if he kept it. I'll report back on the next podcast. I suspect that it's still improved. If it's based, like, you know, going back to the conversation on trust, like, the evidence is that when I work on people, by three visits we're good. So I expect him to come in tomorrow and look probably pretty good.
Also based on what he's texted me over the last week of like, "Hey, I feel great, Anna. Like, I would like to come in one more time before I go out, out of town on leave." Okay, cool. So anyways, um, long episode probably. Mm, yeah. But you know, you needed an update, and then also, like, I hope it is helpful, like, hearing my thoughts on, um, all of that.
And, um, also know I'm really enjoying the, um, conference, and I wish I was there in Orlando with the people. And, um I'm really excited about how much I believe that the LTAP fills such a need in all of our industries, and it can be such a useful tool to just supercharge everyone's practice, whether you're a strength coach, a physical therapist, an athletic trainer, massage therapist, Pilates teacher.
It doesn't matter what your treatment tool is, what technique you use to help somebody. When you can figure out where to start, it's gonna make all the difference. So, I-- this will be the hill that I die on, and hopefully not for at least another 46 years. Talk to you soon. Thanks for being here