You're Already Treating The Viscera... You Just Don't Know It
What if the reason your go-to treatment isn’t working… isn’t because it’s the wrong technique?
In this episode of the Unreal Results podcast, I unpack a question I’ve been sitting with a lot lately: how much do precision and specificity actually matter in treatment?
You’ll hear why I believe the right place to treat matters more than the right tool, and why even the most advanced technique can fall flat if it’s not directed by a clear assessment. I share examples from clinical practice and reflections from my own continuing education journey.
I also share the backstory behind my new mini course, Go-To Treatments for the Viscera and Nervous System, and how it’s designed to challenge the idea that you need more fancy tools to get better results. (Spoiler: you probably already have what you need, you might just need a different lens to see it through.)
Whether you’re feeling stuck with a tricky client or wondering if your treatment toolbox needs an upgrade, this episode will help you clarify what really creates change and how to get there without overcomplicating the process.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Get the new mini-course HERE: Go-To Treatments for the Viscera and Nervous System
Episode 33: Assessment Is Sexy
Sign Up For A Barral Institute Course (Please tell them Anna Hartman sent you!)
Learn the LTAP™ In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Anna Hartman: Hey there and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs in the nervous system on movement, pain and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.
Hey there, uh, maybe like third or fourth times the charm. I don't know. Welcome back to the Unreal Results Podcast. I've pressed retake on this video more times than I would like to admit for this week. For no other reason, but like I am like just rambling. I have a plan for today too. It's not like I even need to ramble, but I am rambling.
So here we are post ramble about a lot of nonsense. The landscaper, my birthday age, all that comes with age in society, all the things. So I'll wrap that all up and be like, Hey. Welcome back. Last week was my birthday. I felt very special and taken care of by the people in my life that I care about. And then all of you, perhaps even on social media, wishing me happy birthday and the dms and the comments and the emails.
I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Um, birthdays are funny as you get older. I still love a day all about me, even though sometimes I don't like to be the center of attention, even though like I do, but I don't. Um, it's nice to be loved on, especially I spend a lot of time taking care of other people and loving on them and like.
Giving a lot. And so it's nice to be able to sit back and let people give to you and, um, love on you and make you feel special. So, uh, thank you everyone who did that and, um, I hope you caught the birthday flash sale and grabbed. Some products, um, some courses, maybe the Regen library and um, you know, I only put those on sale twice a year, so, um, they're available to purchase all year long.
But I do sales like big sales on them, usually in the summer around my birthday and then around Black Friday, the more and more products I have though. The, um, harder it is to like do a bundle for them all and like, um, include them all in the sales. So that might change going forward, but they're always available at all times.
Um, and speaking of self-paced products and self-paced education, I did roll out a new course. If you checked out the sale, if you went to purchase something, you had the opportunity to add on, um, a couple new courses I had, well, a new course and then a, a companion guide for it. And the new course was, um, is called, um, my is called Go To Treatments for the Viscera and the Nervous System.
It's a mini course and it was actually, um, a course created from one of the bonuses I did during the last LTAP level one, um, online course in the fall. Um, it was a bonus I offered. And basically it was sort of like, even though if you've been listening on the podcast, you know that I preached, the treatment tool is not important.
It's where you using it when you're using it. That's important. That's a whole point of the LTAP and assessment. However, two things, three things are true about that. Number one, people still ask me all the time, how do I treat X, Y, Z? Number two, there are many treatments that are kind of like my go-to treatments for everything.
Not everything, but like a lot of common things. Um, and this is actually gonna be about what today's podcast episode is, is like the need for specificity and precision. And then the third thing that can is true about treatments is no matter how much I preach, that the assessment is actually what you need to get, the better results.
People still be wanting the treatment. Treatment is sexy treatment sells in the world of physical therapy, athletic training, chiropractor like sports performance, that kind of thing. Treatment exercises. Protocols. Programming that sells so much easier than assessments and critical thinking and theory now, business wise, especially when it comes to new people coming into my atmosphere.
All of you listening, you are already on board with me. You get it. You've heard me talk about it enough that you're like, yeah, assessment is the missing piece. Then also you hear me at every podcast talk about assessment and then be like, well, here's the treatments I did. And then often I link them in the show notes.
So this product, this go-to treatments for the visceral nervous system, puts a lot of that, those treatments, the mo, more movement based kind of general manual therapy based treatments in one little mini course, uh, that's super accessible and can introduce you. To a whole organism lens of view can introduce you, uh, to how movements in general radiotherapy can be used in this new lens of view, appreciating the viscera in the nervous system, and so making it more accessible to treat the nervous system and the viscera without having to have gone to a formal visceral manipulation or neural manipulation or craniosacral therapy training class.
And, um, also it speaks to the problem that a lot of clinicians think they have. A lot of clinicians think that the problem is, is they're missing a certain treatment tool or technique, like their patient's not getting better because they're, you know, don't know enough treatment techniques or treatment tools, or they're not doing the right exercise or whatever it may be.
And so whenever I, whenever it comes to business and when you're really trying to like, pull people in to like share the solution you have for them because I do have a solution for that. Um, you have to speak to the problem that they think they have. Not the problem that I know they have, the problem they think they have is not enough treatments.
The problem that I know they have is you don't have an assessment that tells you where to start and where to go because we all know. If you've been listening here for a while, that I always say that the crappiest treatment in the area where the body wants is better than the best treatment technique, the most precise, specific, skilled technique by the most amazing manual therapist and the most amazing exercise specialist or coach or movement practitioner in the world, in the area of their choice.
So, this course sort of bridges that gap of like, Hey, you think treatment's the problem? Here's all the treatments I use, but the way I use them in this lens of view really exposes that's like, yep, you need an assessment. So, um, you might be seeing that course I am testing out some, um, ad creatives on Instagram right now.
Um, that. You might be seeing, um, or you just as I get the ads started, you might be seeing those ads if you happen to be in the target, um, demographic of who I do the ads for. Um, I'm not doing the ad specific to people who already like follow me, people who are already on my email list, but by default, um, a lot of you may be in the category of the ads I will be running, so you might see them, you might not.
If you see 'em, great. Interact with the ad. Purchase the course if you'd like. Um, if you've been here a while and you've taken the LTAP, or even if you took the missing link, spoiler alert, you might already have access to the class. So if you haven't checked your emails later lately, or you haven't logged into your Kajabi course, port portal, like always, please check, check your portal, check to see what classes and courses and things you have from me before you go purchase more stuff.
The amount of people who buy things repeatedly forgetting that they bought it in the past is actually more than you would believe, so please check first before buying, but then also buy it. I created a companion guide for it too, which is kind of like a blend of the visceral referral cheat sheet and this go to treatments class.
It basically is like, oh, shoulder pain or dysfunction. Probably should be treating the subdiaphragmatic organs and the thoracic organs, these spinal segments. Here's my favorite treatments for that. So it links them all together. Um, so that is a companion that goes with it. You can only buy the companion if you buy the course, though.
So the companion is not available on its own just yet. Maybe eventually be, but for now it is, um, what's called an order bump. So if those things interest you. I'll make sure Joe links it in the show notes too. Um, but yeah, this wasn't actually a sale for this. Like I'm not trying to sell you on it. Grab it or don't grab it.
Either way. Happy to have it as a resource out there. It is not a all encompassing end all be all resource. It is like a taste tester of like all the things in one spot and, um. This is why it's called the mini course too. This is not a, every exercise I ever use, every manual therapy thing I ever use, like obviously it's just a little bit of it.
So, um, why I wanted to share about that though is as I'm creating this resource and as I'm writing the messaging for, um, the sales page, and as I am like talking through it with my team and my business coach, I'm like. Let's, I think, I think I wanna have more conversation around this concept of specificity and precision, and that's actually what this podcast episode is going to be about.
Today is just about this concept, and this is obviously not the first time I talk about it. I always talk about this, um. But it's something to keep in mind and, and especially when we're talking about treatment tools that work for things and the need for courses or education around. More skilled, higher level skillset of assessment and treatment.
You know, like going to the Barral Institute courses, like going to apal courses, like, you know, all the other stuff out there that's like teaching you very, like specific and price things. There's a time and a place for that 100% go. I love those classes. Um, and continue to add tools to your toolbox from a treatment standpoint.
But also you need to, from an assessment standpoint and what the LTAP, the Locator Test Assessment Protocol does for us is it makes us realize that this assessment piece is so important because it directs you where the body wants to start. It directs you to where the body's like primary protection pattern is, and when we can direct treatment there, the need.
For such specificity and precision is not so strong, you can have a very general treatment and have a big effect on the body. And this is also my biggest thing. My biggest thing is like I am never going to be the person who's going to teach you really specific and precise visceral manipulation and neural manipulation techniques.
Why would I want to recreate what the Barral Institute does so well, right? Like that doesn't make sense. And if I did wanna teach it, I would just go through their path of becoming a teacher for them. I wouldn't do all the work to create my own thing. But what, what I have worked through over the years of taking those 20 plus courses over the last
12 years and integrating, integrating it and assimilating it into my practice is realizing that always this whole career of mine and just as a human, whenever you move your body, whenever you apply a manual therapy technique to it, self massage, manual therapy, or practitioner assisted manual therapy tool assisted manual therapy.
No matter what it is, literally, you have always, always been affecting the viscera and the nervous system. You just haven't seen it from that lens of view, which is why I created a resource like this, because whether you've taken one class from the Barral Institute or 20 classes from the Barral Institute. You need to see how the things that you even learned in grad school or you learned, I don't even know, in whatever class, also have application that can be really powerful when we look at it from a different way.
So the, I, I use the liver as an example. Because of all the organs, the liver anatomy is like the easiest to make sense for people that don't know the anatomy very well. But it's like a big old organ on your, mostly on your right side, but it does extend to the left side, right underneath your diaphragm about middle of your trunk, lower rib cage, right?
It is a abdominal organ in the thoracic. Area in the thorax, an abdominal organ in the thorax, also called a subdiaphragmatic organ, right? Um, you could call it a subdiaphragmatic thoracic organ, I guess technically, um, depends on how you want to, um, concert it, but anatomically it's in the abdominal cavity.
So anyways. We all sort of understand where it's at. We all understand maybe, maybe you do, maybe you don't. But the diaphragm level is around the level of like, let's say rib six. And so we all know that we have 12 ribs, so we understand that the lower part of the thorax contains the liver and um. Then we then can think about all the exercises in the world or the manual therapy in the world that we've ever done to affect the thorax breathing exercises, thoracic mobility exercises like thoracic extension, thoracic flexion, thoracic side bending, rotation.
You know, like a classic 90, 90 stretch. We. Have always seen those as something to do for the joints of the spine, the thoracic spine, the ribs, the maybe the diaphragm itself, maybe the intercostal muscles. Maybe we're even looking at it from a core control standpoint. Right. But we've always looked at this from a musculoskeletal lens of view of like, oh yeah, we need to improve posterior lateral rib mobility.
Full diaphragmatic breath and restore thoracic mobility into flexion and extension and rotation. We know this for upper extremity health, for neck health, for lumbar spine, for core stability. Like I, I am not the first person to tell you how important the thorax is in the body, but what we've not really appreciated is the liver's right there too, and it's attached to all that stuff. And so when you're moving all that stuff, you're moving the liver, whether you want to move the liver or not, the liver is moving, the liver moves with each breath. The liver moves. As I rotate, the, the liver has to rotate either in the same direction or the opposite direction.
It becomes like a joint, right? Oftentimes our joints, they move in opposition. You go one way, the the structure goes the opposite way. Yep. Liver too. So when we can appreciate this anatomy of the viscera, then now all of a sudden you're like, huh, do I know a visceral technique for the liver?
Depends on what you wanna consider a visceral technique. Do you know how to do a liver lift? Probably not unless you've gone to aral course. Do you know how to do lateral flexion? Yeah, probably. Do you know how to restore lateral flexion if it's lacking on someone? Right. There's a lot of exercise you could choose from.
Do you know how use gravity and like create movement of structures towards the head versus towards the feet. Yeah, probably if you thought about it. Right? So what this shows you is, yes, specificity and precision matter, but not as much as you think, because I can have a similar effect on the liver that a liver lift does by doing side bending by doing.
A reclined or supported like bridge with directed breathing in the area, or even manual therapy around that posterior lateral rib area, and have the same effect structurally, functionally on the liver as a really precise visceral manipulation technique.
How cool is that? How cool is that? And so that's really. Besides getting people to understand this whole organism lens of view, the most important thing for me is to get people to realize that if you know exercise, if you knew manual therapy, you too can treat the organs. You too can treat the nervous system.
You just need a different lens to see it in. Okay. That's like foundational understanding. The other thing, when it comes to more precise and specific treatments, is there a place for being able to figure out if the liver, if the mobility is limited in the area or function, is diminished in the area of the organ?
Is there a reason for us to have a more specific treatment? Yes, but that also needs, means me. Yeah. That also means we need a more specific assessment. It's not enough that we just be like, oh, this area of the right upper quadrant is where I'm being directed and I need to do something for it. Now, if we know it's that area, we can get really specific on like, is it the suspensory ligament on the right.
Or the left. Is it the more central ligament of the salor ligament? Is it the articulation between the diaphragm and the liver? Like as a joint? Is it, um, the, the ligament that holds the. I don't know if hold's the right word, but the ligament that sort of creates this rotational axis of the liver around the vena CVA and the aorta.
Like what specific structure or is it part of the liver itself? All of those great, are great questions to have from an assessment standpoint because if you have more specific techniques. From a treatment standpoint to treat each one of those things? Absolutely. The more and more specific and precise we can get, potentially the bigger treatment effect we will have.
And what I mean by a bigger treatment effect is we will need less time treating that area to have a longer lasting effect.
But once you, if, if the only tools you have to treat the liver are like cupping and exercise or any, or it doesn't even have to be cupping, any sort of manual therapy or exercise just in the general area of the liver or between the segments that are related to it from a somatic standpoint, T seven to T nine.
Will you have an effect on the liver? Yes. Will you have a really powerful effect on, let's say the falciform ligament, if it needs a little direct stretch to it, to sort sort of help to stimulate the fascia sites in the area to bring in more hydration to like change the extensibility of the tissue?
Probably not. Over time restoring movement in that general area, does it have a chance to affect that falciform ligament? Yes, but it's gonna need more cycles of it. It's gonna need more cycles of it, and that's what I mean by the ripple effect of the specificity and the precision when you can just go directly to the falciform ligament or whatever structure, right?
We're just using the liver as an example. And do a treatment right to that, when that is exactly where it was needed. Then we have this amplified effect and sometimes we only need one treatment and it sticks and it lasts. But if it's general, we might need three treatments and continued, like home exercise program, focus on maintaining mobility and support of that area.
So it's not that. You don't ever need to know specific and precise treatments. Of course, it's great to have in your toolbox. That is often the difference. You know, when you go to a clinician with a lot of experience versus not a lot of experience, whether it's visceral or not, right? Like if you go to clinician fresh outta school versus if you go to a clinician that's been practicing for 20 years.
Who's gonna have more tools to pick from and have the ability to potentially be a little bit more specific and precise and have a better treatment effect? Typically, the one with the more skills, but also definitely if skills are equal. And sometimes even if skills not equal, if the person with the more skills treats the body somewhere, the body doesn't wanna be treated, but the person with less skills treats the body where the body wants to be treated, they're gonna have the better treatment effect 'cause it's where the body wanted.
So the ripple effect is going to be more long lasting.
Very similar to when we think about ripple effect. We think about, I think at least, I don't know if we, I think about like throwing a rock in a pond or skipping a rock on the surface of the water. You can have the perfect rock to skip, and if it's just a little off, it doesn't skip very well. But if you have the perfect rock to skip and then you're like right on where you need to release it and throw it on the water, you have a bigger effect.
That's how we combine precision and specificity between our assessment and our treatment. The LTAP helps us narrow down the driver. So if somebody comes in with knee pain, the LTAP allows us to be like, is it really about the knee? Is it about somewhere else? And narrowing that is important. And then what if we were like, yeah, it's about the liver.
And so then I'm like, oh, do I have tools that if I had an assessment to get me more precise? But what part of the liver? That I'd be able to treat there. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm gonna do a further assessment in that area of the liver and figure out what exact structure it is. So I can pick in my tool bag that has all these, you know, 20 plus years of tools, 5,000 hours of Con Ed and all these treatment techniques that I could pick up.
And I'm like, oh, look at that. I've got a treatment tool specifically for the falciform ligament.
This is often when I'm teaching in the LTAP or when I'm teaching in the mentorship, when people are like, but what, what treatment should I pick? Like, what should I do once I'm here? And I'm like, my an my question often is like, what is your, what tools do you have to pick from?
And then it's like, okay, you don't have any specific tools like. Try something general, try the 90 90 stretch and then reassess. How did that change? If it didn't change, it doesn't mean you did something wrong. It means like try another tool. 'cause that one wasn't very specific. We're so quick to be hard on ourselves sometimes too, when things don't have the effect that we think they should, and oftentimes it's just because we're picking too general of a technique.
Also though why I love the LTAP because like you, when you're in the right place, you're in the right place. And so it's like, don't deny that. Sometimes you, your tool set are just so general that you just need to try a lot of things before you see the thing that actually shifts it. But don't give up on the area because you're in the right spot.
But then also on the flip side, like. I've got all these, all these specific treatment techniques, all these really precise treatment techniques that I could use. And the things that I end up using the most are these general techniques, really general techniques that I had before I even went to these 22 classes.
Because being in the right spot matters that much. So this is also like going back to like the beginning of the talk while he was talking about that go-to treatment mini course is like, I was super confident putting this course out because I'm like, well, people are gonna get results with these 'cause these are really good treatments.
If you've been here for a while or you've listened to a lot of episodes, I hope you're checking the show notes because these are the exercises, the movements, the manual therapies, the self massage stuff that I'm constantly linking in the show notes.
So hopefully this makes sense and hopefully this is a good like way to like, think about things, but it's like there's nothing wrong with not having specific and precise treat treatment techniques, um, because oftentimes the general techniques is all needs. But then it's also why it's like this should inspire to either wanna learn more specificity or team up with somebody who has specific techniques, right? I say that a lot of the times when people come through my classes, like the thing that people feel like the least confident about most of the time is the central nervous system and the cranium, right? Because it's just an area that is not taught a lot, is an area that people don't have a lot of treatment techniques and assessment skills around.
And so it's like if the LTAP keeps directing you. Your client to issues in the cranium, like don't feel like you're doing something wrong. It just means that you don't have a specific enough or precise enough skillset that they need. And so it's like one, it identifies a knowledge gap or a skill gap in your in for you, and you get to decide.
Something with that, you decide, I don't like having that gap, so I wanna seek out courses that fill that and round out my skills and round out my offerings. Or you're like, Hmm, I realize that's a gap, but I have no desire to know those skills. So I'm gonna stick with these general things that Anna has taught me because on most people, they work great.
And then when I get to a person that is like, I know they need more specificity and precision 'cause the body keeps taking me there and the general things are not really helping, then I'm gonna make sure I connect them with a practitioner that I know and trust that does have those skills. And that breeds such great rapport and trust with your clients when you're like, Hmm, I know my limitations.
I got the perfect person for you that help us out. You're never going to lose that client. They're always going to trust you and come back to you because they know that you were more concerned with what they needed than the business. And that all people really want is to have a teammate and an advocate to be helping them on their health and wellness journey.
So anyways, precision and specificity, are they important? Yes, to a point. And it is a constant give and take. General works really well. A lot of the times, especially when you have an assessment like the LTAP to know where to start when you don't have that, general's not gonna work very well.
General work a little bit better when you're using it in the lens of a visceral and nervous system point of view. But it's still helpful to have an assessment, to know where to start, to know what you need to do to, to have a bigger effect, a more powerful effect on working with the body, not against it.
So hope you enjoyed it. We'll see you next week.