Compounding Learning and Gaining Clarity - LTAP™ Alumni Interviews: Maria and Sarah
In this episode of the Unreal Results podcast, I host a powerful conversation with two LTAP™ alumni, Maria Delliveneri and Sarah Leong-Lopes.
Maria shares how she integrated LTAP™ into her private practice in Bend, Oregon, where she specializes in shockwave and laser therapy for older active adults. She reveals how LTAP gave her a way to deliver immediate wins to patients who were discouraged after years of failed treatments, transforming skepticism into motivation.
Sarah, a mobile PT in California’s Central Coast, describes how LTAP™ gave her the clarity to confidently assess anywhere, from living rooms to pickleball courts, and get instant results her patients could see and feel. Her fast-tracked journey through Missing Link, LTAP online, and in-person training showcases just how impactful the system can be.
Together, their stories highlight how LTAP™ transcends setting, specialty, and patient population, equipping clinicians with a reliable framework to get better outcomes and stand out in the industry and their communities as a whole “go-to” provider.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Ready to join the REVolution? The Fall 2025 Online Cohort of the LTAP™ Level 1 is open for enrollment!
Learn the LTAP™ In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
=================================================
Watch the podcast on YouTube and subscribe!
Join the MovementREV email list to stay up to date on the Unreal Results Podcast and MovementREV education.
Be social and follow me:
Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube
-
Hello, hello and welcome to another bonus episode of the Unreal Results Podcast. Just got off another Facebook Live in our missing link private group. Um, talking to two of my ltap, level one alumni. Um, Maria, who is an athletic trainer. Up in Oregon, who has been on the podcast before. And then, um, Sarah, who's a physical therapist in, um, Southern California in the San Luis Obispo area.
Um, both of them have done the online and the in-person courses and, um. Sarah most recently, and then I think Maria last year. Uh, so I just loved talking to them, their unique practices, their patient populations, their experience learning, um, both in the online and the in-person courses and then how they're implementing it into their practice.
And the exciting part is the type of results, of course, that they're getting is so fun to hear and so fun to share. And. Um, yeah, I loved this conversation. I could have spoke to both of them for like another hour. Um, so I hope you enjoy it too. Um, let me know if you have any questions and, uh, just a reminder, the doors to the Fall 2025 online cohort of the Ltap Level one course are only open for four days.
Doors close Thursday, October 2nd. Course starts Monday, October 6th, first call Wednesday, October 8th. I only offer the online course two times per year. That's it. It is a seven week course. You have lifetime access to the course for forever. And invite, you're invited to the live calls every cohort. So it is like the gift that keeps on giving.
You can continue your learning, continue your application as many times as you want in-person. Courses are always open. There's not like a door close on that. The door closes if they full, if they fill up. Last year, all the courses sold out, um, this year. All of them sold out at the beginning of the year.
We have two left in 2025 Toronto coming up. There's Space San Antonio coming up. There's space. So those are the last two of 20, 25. And then we have a whole group of 'em for 2026. So space is limited in those courses. I limit the amount of people to 24. So you know, if they fill up and sell out, then you just gotta wait.
Um. But definitely if you're ready to join and you like wanna start learning immediately, jump in the online course and then figure out the in-person course later. That's it. Enjoy this episode and we'll see ya tomorrow.
So welcome. Um, here we are, uh, live in the Missing Link Facebook group. Again, we're day two of Cart Open, so, um, hopefully you all have been checking out the information, um, learning all the things, tapping into the alumni I am sharing here to get your questions answered, emailing me with questions.
Um, the most important thing I think in terms of why I love bringing the alumni on the calls is to help you all see how you. Can be successful using the L top framework in your own settings. And so I'm trying to bring you different practitioners, different settings so you can sort of see yourself in them and hear from them how they integrate it with more different type of patient populations.
Then only from me in my very specific niche population. So, um, today I have my friend Maria here with us live. So thank you Maria for joining. Um, some of you, if you listening to the podcast, I just had an episode with her drop a couple weeks ago, so hopefully you listen to that. If not, I'll drop it in the comments too.
But Maria is an athletic trainer who practice is in private practice up in Bend, Oregon. And, uh, so welcome Maria. If you wanna share a little bit about yourself. Sure thing. Hey Anna. Thanks for having me on here again. So I'm Maria Delvin. I'm a certified athletic trainer. Since 2008, I've been in a variety settings over my career from the high school D one to D one Power five.
But where I found myself landing for the last 11 years is in private practice as an athletic trainer. And so what I've been specializing in since 2014 is combining shockwave and laser therapy, uh, as two regenerative modalities to help people avoid surgery, injections, drugs, you name it, to stay active with limited downtime.
Um, so typically what that also means is that my patient population falls into, on average kind of the older active adults, so anywhere between 60 and 85. Um, and it typically is somebody who wants to keep going. So your pickle, ballers, skiers, hikers, bikers. Running the gamut of that part of it. Um, and typically here, since I do utilize shockwave and laser as part of my practice, I tend to get those patients that some may consider complex or that, you know, they've tried everything they've been to, you know, the best in town and now they've fallen into say, Hey, let me try this shockwave thing.
So what really kinda led me into looking into the Ltap was that with that patient population one, uh, they can be, they can be a little bit challenging, not only from an assessment and evaluation part and pathology, but also just from a mindset, right? Because if you think about that patient, like they've tried everything and now they're like, oh, and now this is gonna work.
So you really kind of have to hit 'em quick to kind of gain that trust as well as make a change. And so. What I found was that the ltap, when I kept seeing your stuff, Anna coming on online, I'm like, lemme look into this a little bit. Because I was starting to get into a little bit of the neurology part of stuff, expanding that, of what I didn't get in a traditional athletic training, uh, coursework when I went through way back when, um, and found that it was a really good combination with that patient population.
Yeah. I love that. I, um, it is, this brings up like a question I got in the group the other day was someone was asking, oh, the podcast, well, somebody asked in the group like, what my outcomes were before mm-hmm. And what my outcomes are now, which I think, you know, I feel like in one of the past times I've talked to you, we've talked about that a little bit already.
Like, you know, with the shockwave and the regenerative medicine and the things you are already doing, I, I feel like you were getting good results, obviously, because like you said, you get the patients who are. Like failing other therapies, you know? Mm-hmm. And to get good results in patients like that is like, I know you get good results, right?
Mm-hmm. So, um, I, and some, well, for me, I get those patients too. And so sometimes with my population, people are like, oh, well you work with elite athletes, they just kinda get better anyways. Like, is that why you get good results? And I'm like, no, because they came from failed therapies. Like, they come to me saying, I've had this problem for like years and nobody's been help being able to help me.
And then you, I get them results in like one to three visits. So with you integrating it, like, what would you say like your results were prior to the ltap in terms of either like percentage, like are you closer to helping, you know, like, were you helping 80% of people, a hundred percent of people, whatever, where are you now?
And then also how did your, how have you seen your. Treatment duration change, you know, in terms of how many visits you're seeing people for. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that brings up such a good thing because when we think about two of how shockwave and laser works and we think of regeneration, we had to think on a longer time span.
So when we think of the outcomes of what we see traditionally, when we're properly utilizing those modalities, if it's a true tendinopathy, um, shockwave has about an 88 to 85% success rate outcome of helping that person have a significant reduction of pain and changing of the actual tendon. But it doesn't happen overnight.
So we're looking at two to four months. So again, when you're dealing with those patients that have already been through things for usually months to years at that point, like telling them, Hey, I have a really, you know, high success rate here, I really think you're gonna do well, but it's gonna be another two to four months.
Like, that's instantly deflating. Yeah. So. As we tend to see too, right, with those patients, like they tend to come in layers. And so going through for that part of it where the modalities help to facilitate a better environment, but it takes time if you can help improve that person right away in their movement.
Um, as well as, uh, like taking down fear or restriction of loading so they can get back to doing something that makes them like, feel like themselves again, or an athlete again is huge. So with the ltap finding ways that like as you go through your assessment in a session. And going through that aspect of it, that within five minutes you kind of identify like, Hey, here's where I think I should start today.
Oh, look it, we went from having like no hip internal rotation to all of the hip internal rotation, and now they can move with proper biomechanics and they can see it, they can feel it, they, um, can start integrating it right away. It's like the perfect match that goes through. So I think the biggest thing here of what I've seen the change since integrating the Ltap with that is getting people the confidence and the changes, um, to have a pattern, um, and restore that movement and a faster way through that.
So they're able to see it within session one, within, you know, the first couple of weeks that we're going there. So it really helps that buy-in and that motivation as they're going through a long journey there, um, to kinda wait out the game and see those true changes with shockwave and laser doing their thing farther down the road.
Yeah, that's huge because I know, like I've had some athletes try the shockwave and Yeah, they're not, they're not patient. Like, even though they kind of understand how it is more of a long-term modality from a regenerative medicine standpoint because you can't see it or feel it in action, they're just like, if it doesn't change their pain or their mobility in the first few sessions, they're like, I'm not gonna go back.
Yeah. And I'm like, which, which I get, I get, I get too. I'm like, yeah, you're right. 'cause it's like, how do you know if it's even working? Mm-hmm. And it's, unless you're getting like imaging done to like see the actual tissue changes, you know? And then it's like, who has access to that? So. Mm-hmm. I love that it's like such perfect pairing then, because it's like, yeah, I believe in the technology.
Like there's been studies, like I, I, I think it is a great technology, but it is hard to get that buy-in, especially on someone who. Has failed other therapies. So being able to yeah. Change their pain and change their mobility and increase their function out of the gate, they're like, I will do anything you say.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think what was like even more affirming is I just got back from the 27th annual, um, world Congress on shockwave therapy down in Columbia. So this is listening to all of the physicians around the world that have been using this technology for decades. And like what was really affirming that I was on the right path here of integrating the ltap is one of the biggest things that kept coming up from them, um, is treating the fascia.
Mm-hmm. And so that was like their biggest thing to look at. And so part of it, right, like from the biomechanical standpoint and traditional athletic training model, like, sure we can treat like, uh, musculoskeletal fascia, but now having the ability to integrate. Essential nervous system stuff as well as the viscera.
Mm-hmm. Um, and then like, start with that rather than, I feel sometimes I would kind of stumble upon it maybe a little bit later. Mm-hmm. Huge, huge, huge, huge, huge impact for things. I love that. Yeah. Um, so cool. I, um, I know we've talked about it before, but it, and you've said the same things, but I'm like, oh yeah, I do see how like, yeah, you're still doing the, the duration of the shockwave that you need, but it's just like allowing you to access that tissue better, but then also mm-hmm.
You to like have the patient like be more, be more patient, which is great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because especially like if you could take like your treatment area from rather being like an entire quad and calf to work on knee flexion and like really zone in, 'cause you've freed up knee flexion from something else.
It's huge. Yeah. That is so like. One of the, the patients that really sticks out to me is, um, this was a 28-year-old with a total knee replacement. They had cancer 10 years before and they had to remove bone of the tibia, so it wasn't your traditional total knee. Yeah. And so knee flexion ended up being like post-surgical maybe like 85 degrees.
Maybe you could like push to 90. And since it was a non-traditional approach, um, they were just kind of chalk it up to like, that's how it's gonna be to the rest of your life. So telling an 18-year-old, like that's the flection in what your life's gonna look like for me for is really hard. So it was kind of cool because this was when I went through, um, what was it, the results cheat code at that time.
Mm-hmm. So maybe like two years ago, two and a half, three years ago. Yeah. The same link but different name. Yeah. Yeah. And so kind of playing around with it, and that was my demo body. So I'm like doing the March test came up SCNS and I'm like, okay, well we saw the basic exercise, like let's do this for this person and like immediate yawn.
And I'm like. Okay, well that's kind of cool. Yeah, but like the bigger thing was that instant 10 degrees of knee flexion came from that additional. Yeah. And so then I'm like, okay, well like at this part in the course, you know that that was really kind of that focus there is the first test of the ltap. So I'm like, well, Anna talks about the liver a lot.
Like let me see if, lemme see if I can do something for the liver. So I'm like, well let's just have you sideline over a pillow and do some breathing. I kid you not an extra like 25 degrees of knee flexion. And so. Uh, out of this stuff here. I think that's been the biggest thing that I've seen in my practice too, is just the ability of seeing change in people, especially total knee patients, um, of gaining range of motion because it's, it's not truly either the implement or the scar tissue, like their fed to believe or the patient's fault.
Like they're told a lot that it's their fault for not rehabbing enough or whatever enough, and like you can just uncover some of these other things. It's been really, really huge and impactful and doesn't take a long time. And like patients are are thrilled, right? Because they always think too of like, I've failed rehab, or they just need to crank and push on my knee harder or I just need to do more or another magic stretch and et cetera, et cetera.
Yeah, I love that. So it's really been cool to unlock a lot of that. So cool. I love that. Well, um. To pause on Maria's stories are like, clearly we talk a lot, so I could keep asking about it. Uh, but, uh, Sarah has joined us. Sarah, thank you for joining us. Sarah, is a physical therapy, the right? No physical. You got it.
Got physical therapy, physical therapist. I can talk physical therapist up in like, uh, San Luis Obispo. That's correct, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You got it. Um, so for those of you who are not Californians, you might not know that's California. So California just a little bit north of la. Also on the coast, it's considered the central Coast.
Mm-hmm. Um, though still a little bit south. Um, so, uh, welcome. Sarah just completed, uh, the in-person course here in San Diego that I had in September. Um, so it was my first time getting to interact with her in person. And then you've also done the online course too, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. I like speed run through your stuff.
Like I was in missing link in March and then I joined the online course in April, and then I signed up for the September in person L Tap. Yeah. I'm like, I just ate it all up and I'm still going through stuff. Yeah. It's been great. Yeah. And you had reached out, well you, I think you told me even before you came to the in-person course, you were like, Anna, I'm getting such good results.
Like I'm the hugest fan. Like this is amazing. Like, whatever, like whatever you need me to do, I'll like, I'll do it. Yes. Hundred, which I freaking love. Um, obviously too. Um, having talked to you a little bit, like you, um. Have different patient populations that you, you have, right? Mm-hmm. You have a couple different ones, so why don't you share a little bit too of like who you work with, like how you work, and then we can Yeah, absolutely.
So I, one of the most, I think. Like in interesting things to note is I, I work mobile, I'm basically completely mobile. And so a lot of who I work with are people who have like very specific interests. They're not home bound, but they are like, they have a preference for me to come meet them where they're at.
So this, this actually opened up because I had a lot of pickle ballers coming in through the clinic and they, what I was hearing a lot was like, man, Sarah, I just wish you could meet me on the courts and work with me there so you could see where my dysfunction is. You know, see what's going on there.
'cause. I can't replicate it here in this clinic as much as we try. Um, and so I was like, oh, well let me set myself up so I can do that then. Yeah. And that's kind of what, what opens up. You're like, great idea. I wish I Yeah, great idea. Was outside on a pickleball court too. Yes, exactly. So that's kind of like the first wave of demographic that I started working with was a lot of pickle ballers and then it kind of expanded to just other people who maybe just didn't have the time to get out into a clinic.
Like I worked with a rancher who was like an hour out of any local PT clinic and so for him it just wasn't feasible to take three hours out of his morning to drive out, be in PT, and then drive back. Mm-hmm. So I'll work with a lot of people on site, um, as well. But by and large it's a lot of these active individuals.
Mm-hmm. And then I have people like on the other side of it, who they're just not able to get the attention that they need in clinic 'cause they have chronic pain. And stuff that's just been going on for, you know, years and years on end, just cortisol had run rampant in their body sort of a thing, and their body just shutting down sort of a thing.
And so I'll see a lot of people on in kind of in that demographic as well. So those, those are kind of the main groups that I tend to find myself working with. And what I love about the Ltap is that it is such a portable technique and so it makes it really easy to take with me wherever I'm going and being able to just like assess right there on the fly.
I don't have to bring too much of extra equipment. I can if I need to. There are some other things that, you know, I might want to use more specifically, but, um, it's, yeah, it's very handy to just know that all I need are my hands a gorgeous ball. An alpha ball, frankly. You know, like, it's just so simple. A little toolkit that comes from that.
Um, and then also just whatever the client has at home or in their office space or, you know, wherever they might be doing life, um, it makes, it just, it helps me meet them where they're at so much more easily then when they're coming into the clinic to see me. And that's been, that's been like one of the, my favorite parts about it is people see it and they're like, oh my goodness.
Like I can actually do this, uh, so easily at home. And it doesn't feel like you have to set aside an extra 20, 30 minutes to do, you know, right. Exercises that maybe help or maybe make a difference. It's hard to say, Sarah, I don't know about this one. You know? Right. Yeah. That's so huge. You know, I didn't even think about that too, in terms of always saying, you know, that it doesn't really matter the treatment as long as you're in the right spot is like, with that, for people who don't have access to gyms, can't make it into like facilities to utilize different modalities or different things.
Like it's still like Yeah. Like you said, so portable, like you can still get really great results when you have like very little equipment mm-hmm. To have access to, which is like so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I took it, I took it with me. 'cause shortly after I took the missing link actually, um, I, I had an opportunity to work with, uh, team USA's racquetball team mm-hmm.
At their like Pan-American games and they're like, yeah, Sarah, like, and I, I hadn't really like. Flown anywhere. Mm-hmm. To do PT before. But for, for this instance, I was like, oh, you know, I just learned all this really cool stuff with the missing link. And I started in the first couple weeks of the ltap online course.
Let me just bring this with me and like try these on these athletes in, in real time who are, you know, dealing with chronic injuries and dealing with acute injuries. And I, I was able to come in with, again, very little equipment, literally all that I had. There was a point that the, um, the club provided and then like some just like scraping tools, tape, you know, and, and that was it.
And that was all I had to work with. And I was like, well, I've got my cord, gorgeous ball. That's like all I've got right now. Let's just play around with that. Um, and that was just like another, like vote of confidence towards how easy it was to integrate this, to help out these athletes on the fly in the moment, you know, just like minutes before their next match, which is really cool.
That is really awesome. Well, and that, so you, you both have alluded to like the quickness of it, and that is like, I love to hear that you're doing this between matches of competition because, and I like same thing, like when I'm on the track with people, like, it's literally like, wow, they're warming up for their event if they feel something funny, like we quickly run through the ltap to see where it's coming from and do one quick intervention and then they're right back to their practice.
And I think both in the in-person course and in the online course, one of the biggest like questions I get from people is like, how do I fit this in my treatment session? It's gonna take me so long. And part of that is a, a learning curve, right? Mm-hmm. That's, to me, that's an indication of like, well, you need more practice with the assessments because I know that it would be five minutes or less to get the information that you need.
And so can you guys both speak to where you're at now with it? Obviously, like you said, you're just doing it between sessions, so I know it's quick, but like. You know, learn. Thinking back to when you did start learning it, like, how's the learning curve been? And then Yeah. How much time does it really take?
And like, to get to the point for me now where I'm at, um, it's, it's because of how often I get to practice it. And especially because since bringing it back from taking the course and whatnot, like all of my patients, all my clients are always like, so Sarah, what course are you just back from now? Like, what do we get to try?
Which is really cool. Yeah. I'm grateful that that's my clientele. Um, a lot of them are very game for me to just try these techniques or assessments and whatnot on them. So I've been able to get multiple reps in multiple times a day, which is nice. And I've, I've noticed that it does shave off time. It still, it still takes me about, uh, like seven minutes.
Mm-hmm. If it's, you know, I'm, I can tell like where my learning curve is. Is more so like all like the visceral inhibition tests and whatnot. Mm-hmm. The, I get a lot of people who are either like CNS or neurovascular or they're like, you know, no protective pattern. I'm good to go. Yeah. Um, and so those ones I can tell like I'm getting way more efficient at, and then it's all like the visceral ones.
And I think part of that is also just the volume of, I don't have as many people presenting with that. So when that comes up, I know that that will kind of happen faster. But yeah, it really doesn't take that long to get, get your reps in and to start understanding like, oh wow, that is, I don't have to scrutinize that this mastoid is more prominent than the other.
It's like, actually I can tell. Yeah. You can just like tell. Yeah. You can just tell. Right. An instant. So, and especially the more people you get your hands on, like you were saying in the courses too, like you just kind of start to feel what. Typical what, you know, normal, what unremarkable is. Yeah. So that when you do feel something remarkable, it sticks out.
Right. The store thumbs, jump right out. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Whenever I in in person, I'm always like, you guys, this is like the easiest test. Like, I promise just put your hands and be like, is one bigger than the other? Yeah. Yeah. And it's cool 'cause I actually got to teach, um, there's a, there is a clinic that I kind of help out at part-time and I got to show one of the aides who is interested in, in like physical therapy and whatnot, and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna put my thumbs right here, right on, on the, um, I was on the sacrum, right?
Mm-hmm. On the ILA and I was like, I just put myEd right here. And she was like, whoa, that one's higher. And I was like, you're like, yeah, yes, yes. It's, yes. She's like, this is really cool. So it's like, it, it really can be that clear. That's, I love that even the untrained eye can see something's off. Mm-hmm. I think what also is really neat about that is like how quickly you can have it change with an intervention and you're like, oh, cool, cleared it.
Next one. Do, do, do, do. Um, and it's like thinking back to my days of traditional athletic training setting, like having this skillset when you had, you know, 20, 30 athletes coming in at you all at the same time, like it would be amazing just to like, oh my gosh. Right. Yeah, it is incredible. And especially too, like one of the, such of the luxuries that we have in the traditional setting as athletic avatar trainers is like, you see 'em every day.
So like you can really be at that variation of it, um, and really have that integrated and it would just make that prep time where it's kind of go, go, go either game day, practice, whatever it is on the road treatments, like just really take through that time and at least get a starting point, um, to get things going and really help triaging.
Well, I think of, um, when I was a athletic training student back in the day, the athletic trainer at the high school I worked at, shout out Laura Baker at Sheldon High School in Eugene, Oregon. Um, she was amazing and she was so good at triaging people and she was so good at like identifying who needed her attention and who didn't.
And when she triaged people though, she was like, oh, you need this, go over to this corner of the room. And I have like, you know, like she had a little like printout sheet of like, these are the exercises I need you to do and go through. And so people would come in, she'd do a quick little evaluation and she'd send them to what corner of the training room that they would need to do.
And I'm like, that is literally exactly what I would do. Now, if I was in that high volume type of setting where, you know, different than high volume clinic where you have like schedule appointments, but like high volume when you have a whole team of football players coming in to both get their ankle taped and be like, why is my knee hurt?
Mm-hmm. I would quickly do the, um, l tap on, like, I would quickly do the, the March test or the SI joint test. And then quickly the CNS if I, if it takes me in that direction, like, and then I can be like, oh, you're CNS go to that corner, you're visceral. Go to that corner, your left leg, go to that corner.
Mm-hmm. Go do your things and then come back and check in with me so I can reassess and then you can tell me how your pain is now. And if you still have pain, then okay, maybe you need a little bit further ace, uh, you know, further assessment. But if you don't have pain, then like. See it out there. Get out to practice, go do your thing.
Right? So it's like, oh my gosh. You could make things, you could make an athletic training room so efficient that it's just like, ah, I don't ever wanna work in that setting again, but also I wanna work in that setting again. Just try that. Yeah. Well, and I think that's what Sarah really like, brings up that fact of it, like doing it on the pickleball court of like, yeah, there you go, on the changeover, on the sides.
You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, because in that, in that situation too, either where it's like a chronic nagging thing that's been there, or something that just comes up, like you're dealing with issues, not necessarily like. Pathological injury stuff. Mm-hmm. Right. So it's like if you just get them moving better, feeling better and can do it fast and a lot of stuff where they can be self-sufficient, it's cool.
Yeah. So cool. I love that. It's, it's super powerful too with people who have been in chronic pain and you get like those quick wins that they haven't really ever had before. But then with that, there's this layered understanding of this thing took a while to get here. Let's see what else is going on.
Yeah, there's, there's a specific, uh, client that I was working with who she'd been dealing with a lot of like left hip pain and like right shoulder pain. And um, you know, to no surprise it was her liver was involved and stuff like that, but like there was a lot of just chronic inflammation in her body.
And we went through Ltap multiple times, but it kept taking me back to see, like, I always had to start with CNS over and over and over again. And I was like, you know what? I love the, that we can kind of triage this and know who else we can keep in our like Rolodex it to like send people to, if it's not working with what we we're doing here.
Yeah. I sent her to a local craniosacral therapist that I had work on me and she texted me back. She's like, dude, Sarah, thank you so much. Like that freed up so much of my shoulder and my neck doesn't hurt anymore. I'm gonna go back to this gal and see if there's anything else that we need to work out.
So when I saw her on her follow-up visit, she is like, now, now I, it didn't take me to CSF anymore. I got to work somewhere else new. You know, imagine that. Imagine that. How interesting. You know, so it's like, it's really cool. And so then, yeah, it really does build trust more with the, the patients that we're working with.
'cause they know, oh, if you cannot be the one to help me right now, I know, you know who will be my next step. Yeah. I don't have to go guessing and searching and pounding the pavement to find where that next step is. Yeah. And I don't have to be with you forever, like, yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, granted, like I love people, I love that they love me.
So it's like, I want, you wanna be with me forever, but also like, uh, yeah, I'm not doing my job well if you feel like you have to be here forever. Mm-hmm. I have a new, um. A new client, uh, Navy Seal candidate guy that's been seeing me. I saw him today for the second time, which is not even the second time.
Our first time got interrupted, so we had to like split it. So two visits, but it, it's, I would've done it all at once. But anyways, he today, so after the first time he was like, what? How did you do that? He had, um, knee pain for two years, tried a million things, uh, saw multiple practitioners. Like he's today is like, I spent probably like 200 hours worth of time trying to make my knee feel better.
He's like, and last week you saw me and you did the some central nervous system thing to my head and, um, you never touched my knee and I have had not had knee pain since and I'm just blown away. And he was just like, and then, so today we did some treatment on him. Uh, for his other, like a different issue.
And I worked on him and he, afterwards he felt so good and he's like, so, so what now? And I was like, what do you mean what now? And he is like, do I need to see you again? And I was like, I don't, I don't think so. Like, I'm like you. I was like, you don't have to see me again. I was like, now you know, I'm here so if something comes up, call me up.
I was like, if you wanna just do general maintenance for like optimizing your health, like, you know, like once a month is probably fine. I was like, every three weeks it's kind of up to you. I was like, if you want me to like massage your calves once or twice a week, like you guys are doing like up to a hundred miles a week, like probably could use it.
I was like, but you don't have to. I was like, and he was like, well, like every other person I've ever gone to is like, I need to see you four times a week for like eight weeks. And I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't, I was like, I can. I was like, but. Yeah, go live your life. Mm-hmm. And he is like, hi. His mind was just like so blown that I was just like, yeah, it can be that simple.
Which is crazy. And I'm like, and I'm sorry that you've had pain for two years. And it, and that, I always tell the athletes, I'm like, if you're doing the right things and it's not changing, it's not, that's not the problem. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the biggest thing too about the ltap, is that it really empowers the patient.
And so like, rather than them taking the foam roller or getting on the ground for like 45 minutes and just hitting everything they can, even themselves be so much more specific. Yeah. Or more aware of their body of being like, oh, let me try that. C thing. Mm-hmm. And then they're like, oh, that did it. You know?
So it really helps them streamline Exactly. And pinpoint and get back to everything that they wanna do too. Mm-hmm. So that's what I like about it too, is that it's so empowering mm-hmm. For them. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. To piggyback off of that, Maria, there's like, when the, when the patients have that clarity, also it just like unlocks a whole nother faster timeline for their healing too.
Mm-hmm. Because then it gets them active and involved and engaged, and then their brain is actually making more neural connections on how this is all tying together and it just improves the brain body dialogue for them even more. And so that, that empowerment, um. Whether they're aware of it or not.
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, it's, it's really exciting because you just see the like light bulb turn on and they're like, I am okay. I'm gonna be okay. Yeah. And I can actually do this. I don't have to always be at the mercy of whatever expert is telling me I need this next, like, I can actually trust my own body again, question mark.
Mm-hmm. And we're like, yes, exclamation point you can. Yes. And that in itself is like so healing to their nervous system and so good for their health is giving them back that body ownership body mm-hmm. Agency body awareness. It all improves their interoception. And that that helps their limbic system and their brain like, feel safer.
And like when you feel safer, you're more likely to be self-healing. And it, it is, it's like they don't. It's empowering for them, it's freeing for them because they don't feel like they're in rehab purgatory forever anymore. And there's maybe something not wrong with their body anymore, which is like such a wonderful thing to feel.
But it's also like, yes, from a neurophysiology standpoint, it's like that is so, that is everything. Mm-hmm. That is everything. And yeah. And then making them smarter about their body and like being curious, like you're just giving them back this permission to be curious about how things are connected because everything is connected.
Mm-hmm. And, and to praise like someone like him who is like, be diligently researching why is knee hers and, and doing all the things, being such an active participant in his care. Like, great, now you know you're doing the right things and when you're not getting the results, go somewhere else. Yes. And somewhere else, meaning somewhere else in your body.
Not like different practitioner. Yeah. Maybe you need a different practitioner, but yeah, maybe, but also mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah. So, cool. Well, um, I know Sarah, since you jumped in late, um, I know Maria already kind of shared it, but like, I'm curious too, for you, before you found me and you found out about the ltap, like what was the unwanted experience that you were having or like what was the problem that you felt like the Ltap was the solution for?
Or like, learning from me was for, yeah. Ooh, this is a great question for, for me, I always. It, it's twofold. 'cause I know there's a lot of people that you do a great job with their marketing by the way, where it's like, oh, what is the, what is like the treatment that I'm missing? Right? Like, what is the thing that I'm missing from treatment perspective?
But you're like, ah, psych, it's actually the assessment. There is like a part of me that was aware of both. Mm-hmm. In, in some regard. I was like, I ha I feel like I have a pretty decent treatment toolkit. Maybe there's something there that I don't know, but I'm also like, how do I know which one of those treatments to use?
Yeah. So there's already kind of that seed. Seed. Yeah. The where to planted. Yeah, exactly. The where to start, because I'm like, I, I'd like assessing, but it's just taking me too much time. And so I was like, I really would like to make this more, more focused. Mm-hmm. And more efficient in that way. Mm-hmm.
Because. I do like taking my time with assessment, but I don't want it to feel like I'm just spinning wheels and just gathering a bunch of unnecessary data. Yeah. So for me, that was kind of the unwanted experience of like, I feel like I'm just trying to get every single little measurement, and then I'll try to synthesize it later as opposed to like.
Assessing it and synthesizing it within the same like, real time of it. And that helped me, like coming into Ltap and being like, oh, oh my goodness. Like, here's a faster way to understand which tools, which treatments I wanna move into. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was very attractive to me, especially, again, being mobile and like, yes, I can kind of set my own hours, but you know, I'd really like to not have to spend 60 minutes assessing, um, if I can help it, you know, because Yeah.
Like I, you know, there's, there's a way to use that time then how do you Yeah. Yeah. 'cause you're still left with the same question of like, okay. Where to start. Yeah, exactly. So that, that was the biggest draw for me. Yeah. I love that. I love hearing that. I did not know that that's what kind of draw, draw drew you in.
It's so cool. And, and you're right, like, and this is kind of like if anybody's heard me like speak to like how the LT a was kind of born was, well, it was like a need for me to try to, I, I, I saw the value as I learned the osteopathic Baral Institute, general listening and local listening. I saw how that was tied to the actual results.
Like that I got way, I already got good results, but then I got way better results and everything stuck once I had this tool to be able to narrow down where the body was directing me. And so I knew I needed to find like a more concrete way to teach other practitioners that without having to teach them the listening because one, it's not mine to teach.
And then two, it's. The one thing that when you take those courses, the people are very resistant to learn because it relies on your sense of feeling so much. And so I was just, well, this goes back to like I was one of those practitioners who, yeah, I did a very thorough assessment and I looked at so many things, but then I would have this huge laundry list of all these things, objective dysfunctions.
And I'm like, okay, now what? And I literally wrote down, when I first started my online business education stuff, I, my, my business coaches recommended that I write down literally everything I know and like put it in boxes and see how it could like become modules. And so with that, with the evaluation, I literally wrote down every single possible.
Thing I would evaluate on somebody for like every joint in their body, not including like special tests. That's different. I consider that a different type of assessment. Yeah. I mean that then that list would be even longer if I included all those. Mm-hmm. But like from a movement standpoint, from a like movement, biomechanical, functional approach standpoint, all the things that I would look at and a little bit of an orthopedic joint assessment and soft tissue assessment, which, you know, is a model that I originally had from my days working at as Athlete's Performance now XOs.
And it ended up being four pages of an X Excel spreadsheet with tiny little, um, like 10 point font, four pages. And that was the free, the first free lead magnet. I did. I was like done. Like, because everybody would ask me, what's your assessment? How are you assessing people? And um. Well, everybody, a lot of people have asked me, but not everybody.
But, so anyway, so I gave this assessment and people were like, what people, first of all, people were like, you assess all of that. And then they were like, I don't even know what to do with it. And I was like, well, I assess all of it in terms of like, I don't assess four pages of it, every athlete, but over a series of visits I might.
Um, but I was still like, but then I had these, like certain ones, so I categorize, I, I did this four pages and then I also looked at every assessment and I put it in a category. I was like, this is upper extremity function, upper extremity mobility. This is lower extremity function, lower extremity mobility.
This is like core control. This is segmental spine mobility. This is, you know, so I categorized it so I could group it. And then there was, I was left over with these few tests that I was like. These are kind of things that I kind of learned from the osteopathic world, but are kind of orthopedic and they help guide me where to start.
So I called them locator tests and then over time, as I was teaching and this in the mentorship, I just kept telling people if the only thing you ever learn if, or the only thing you ever pick up through the mentorship is like knowing where to start. I know that that's what's going to give you results.
Because I was like fire hosing information to them. Mm-hmm. And I remember being like, just on the four page download, find the five tests that say locator and just get really good at those. And so that's like how it was born, but it was born out of that same scenario of like, yeah, I have a ton of assessments, just like I have a ton of treatments, but at the end of the day when I do a ton of assessments, I still dunno where to start.
I still don't know what treatment tool to choose. Mm-hmm. And so it was like, oh. And with the Baral Institute, they teach you general listening. And the point of the general listening is to narrow it down to a smaller part of the body so then you can do a thorough assessment in the smaller part of the body.
Mm-hmm. Um, and so then I'm like, oh. Yeah. That, that's the, that's the point. Mm-hmm. And so, I mean, that's kind of how, I don't know how I got off on that, but that No, I love that. What you were looking for, but I'm like, yeah, that, that is like how it was born is like this, like you collect all these tools, both treatment tools and assessment tools over the years, and you're just like.
Still unclear of like when to deploy them. Mm-hmm. That was another huge draw for me to you as well, was seeing that there was some overlap in our philosophy because I've, I've taken at, you know, at least, at least VM one, um, signed up for the other ones, but like the, uh, yeah, VM VM two and like craniosacral and I wanna take more of 'em, but like, just to kind of get an understanding.
But yeah, hearing you talk using that osteopathic language, I was like, oh, okay. Anna and I speak the same language, so I know that whatever she is going to be ringing forward as far as assessment, I'm gonna see where she's coming from. And it is nice to be able to, you know, like see how you can take, integrate these different, um.
Skills and these different ways of assessing and these different practices and bring 'em all together. So it's really cool hearing how you're like, yeah, I just like word vomited everything here. And then it just, it it got refined. You made it exist first and then it got refined and became this beautiful, wonderful thing.
Yeah. Yeah. And it continue, you know? Yeah. It continues to just kind of get more and more dialed in. The more I teach it and the more I like, lean into the principles of it all. And so it is, it has been cool to see it all develop, but it's like, yeah, born out of a, I've always been a, a, a lot of assessment type of person and know that that is where the value in things are, but still like feeling like even with the assessment is like, what do I assess what is more important?
So Cool. And I think even like on the flip side of that, um, coming from a background without having any of the rural institute. Listening skills or really any big look at the viscera or traditional central nervous system from an athletic training standpoint, um, I think it really stands into what you always say of like, you have all of the tools just start, you know?
Mm-hmm. Um, that, like, all of that stuff can help you be more specific, but even without it, like, it's not intimidating. Um, once you get the reps in and you go through the flow and you're like, oh, I've been kind of doing this, but this just helps me get to the starting point way faster with stuff I've already been doing and it's effective.
Yeah. I mean, and knowing, like, I think my biggest, like my biggest point is like when you realize it's just like where you start matters is also my other point is like, you know, you can call it visceral manipulation you want, if you want, or neural manipulation that you want. You can also call it soft tissue of like myofascial tissue.
You can call it a joint mode. You can call it a skin stimulation, like. At the end of the day, when you're touching the body, you are always touching all the things. When you're moving the body, you're always moving, all the things you are drinking. The viscera and the nervous system, and the central nervous system, the autonomic nervous system, the peripheral nervous system, always all the time.
And so it's like, whether you realize it or not, it, it's just a label of what you're calling it, right? Mm-hmm. And then like your precision is gonna be based on your knowledge of the anatomy and then your knowledge of your, what the treatment effect actually is on things. And, and that is like a lot of our actual, like, you know, I, I hate the evidence-based medicine trolls, but like a lot of the knowledge sometimes of a why to apply a tool comes down to also is like, what tissue am I trying to affect?
Mm-hmm. But what tissue am I trying to affect is like also. It comes down to my assessment, how spec specific and precise am I trying to get. Right. So it's like one of those things, but it's like generally though, like if the body's protecting the area around the liver and all you have is exercise, like can I affect the right upper quadrant with exercise?
Oh yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. I just don't think of as a liver, I think of it as posterior lateral rib mobility or diaphragm function. I'm like, yeah, we all have tools for that. So I think it is also like demystifying, um, other educations or other like what's silos or what's the word, other dogmas that Yeah. Um, make things more complicated than they need to be.
Yeah. And there's a, a time and a place for the complicated pieces. I'm not saying we shouldn't have those. It's just that mastery of complicated things sometimes is being able to dece it to deduce it to the most basic parts. And it's like, yeah, the most basic parts, like you're moving your thoraco lumbar junction, you're affecting all of those CYS systems because we are one organism.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. Um, this, obviously, this always happens when I talk to people. I'm like, I could talk to you guys forever. Like this is like, talking shop is is the best. Oh, oh yeah. So just to keep it under an hour for the people watching on in the Facebook group and um, or on the podcast or YouTube.
But, um, if you guys, two partying thoughts for the people, for both of you is I get a lot of questions about the difference between the in-person and the online. And if you truly need both. Um, so if you could speak to your experience in both of those. Has both of you have done that, and then also sort of like, what's your words of wisdom to somebody that's like feeling on the fence of if this is for them or not?
Like what, what do you tell them?
Maria, would you like to go first? You, I'm still thinking specifically on my response 'cause Sure. So I think going to in-person versus online, I think the question is need versus want for both of those. Um, do you need to do both? Absolutely not from the way and the support that you get from both of 'em and then the continued support from you, Anna, and everybody in the group that you can bounce ideas off of.
Um, you will be fine with what you learn in either direction you go. Um, but for me personally, what did I do first? I did. The online first. So I liked that aspect of it, of a slower introduction, some more time to noodle on it, kind of go through at my own pace, but without having kind of just the in-person and 3D and being able to like ask the question while you're in the room and being around people for the live part of it, I just really saw a value there where it was just like, oh no, move your hand like this.
Oh, that's how it feels. And you're like, okay, it just finished a little there. Mm-hmm. Um, so for me it was just added bonus for both of those and the way that I learned. But either way you go about it, you're gonna be successful and you're gonna be supported. Yeah. Love that. Yeah, I, I, I resonate with that a lot.
I also did online first and then in person, and I'm in agreement. You have sufficient information regardless if you go in person or do it, take it online. Um, I think that it definitely just like compounds on the experience mm-hmm. To, to be able to do both. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm the type of person who would've preferred to do in-person first, just 'cause I'm way more hands-on.
That's how I learned faster to, to go that route. But because of timing wise, right. It wasn't until September I was like, I'm not gonna wait. I'm just gonna jump in and do the exactly the online first right away. Um, but even in that, the online, like the, the content was so well paced and it was easy to follow.
It was nice because I was able to take it week by week and just focus on that one skill for that one week. I wasn't having to get super distracted with everything else. Um, and like all the information all at once. Not that I don't think, it wouldn't have been manageable, but it, it helped me to pace myself a little bit better in that way.
And it's also just super nice having the information online to just like, watch back through the videos, hear how you like, describe it so that I could kind of use similar language when I'm teaching it to my patients. Um, if there was any like, you know, concepts that I needed to, to introduce to them as far as that went.
Mm-hmm. Um, and then the in-person course was really powerful, just being able to work with other hands and work on other bodies and other, you know, practitioners and hear and see how we all kind of approach things. Diff like, I love the whiteboard activity that you did. Like, that was just so awesome to see how, again, it doesn't matter what technique you use, if you're in the right area, the body's just gonna say yes.
Absolutely yes. Um, and so that, that was really, really powerful to be able to do that in person as well. Um, and then get like the live in real time feedback. Um, on, you know, how to maybe change my hand position mm-hmm. Or like what I'm listening for mm-hmm. A little differently. Those, those were extremely helpful.
I, I think even if I had to wait till next year to have taken one versus the other, there was still more than enough to be able to, you know, get me started and to get me good results. Yeah. Just getting started. Yeah. But for anybody that's on the fence with either one of them, there's no wrong answer.
Really true. There's really no wrong answer, and there's literally only things to gain. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I don't see any part of the course of being a waste of time or adding confusion to the approach. Like, it, it only distills things into more clarity. And so it's really just a matter of like, how long are you willing to wait to help yourself have more clarity and be more effective as opposed to like, is this the right choice for me, it's, it's more just like.
It's up. It's up to you. It's totally up to you. If you're ready to just make yourself a better practitioner and to feel more confident in yourself as a practitioner. Sarah, you kind of, I know you just said that I had a good marketing, but like, you just nailed that. I was like, so compelling. I was like, that is very compelling.
I was like, thanks. You're right. I've never thought of that. You like literally e each one. You have nothing to lose. Like you will al you will compound your learning and just continue to gain more and more clarity of it. So it's like, yeah. Wow. Thank you for those words. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You gave me something excited enough to talk about your words.
I love it. I love it. That is so good. Um, well that's like a mic drop. I feel like unless you guys, Lexi, either of you feel like there's anything else to say. Like, I don't know. I just, every time I, every time I do this launch and I do these interviews, I'm like, ah, I love this. I love hearing from you all. It is just so cool.
Mm-hmm. It's just, I am like continually blown away by the results people get and like how good it does work. And it's just like, I love it and it's so even, you know, even though we have the community and everybody, well people are busy, number one. People aren't sharing on a regular basis 'cause you guys are too busy just getting results for people.
Yeah. Which is great. I'm like, but also like sometimes like people come to an incourse in-person course or people come to the online course and they don't necessarily talk to me a ton or like, they don't, you know, like I try to get a relationship with everybody, especially in the in-person course, but like, you know.
Most of the time people leave and I never hear back from them. And so it's like, I don't know if they're doing it or not doing it, getting great results or not getting great results. And so like when I talk to all of you guys and I hear these stories, it just continues to like, just fuel my fire of like sharing it.
'cause I'm like, everybody needs this. Mm-hmm. And everybody needs it. Not because I want everybody to be like, you know, like praising me, but I'm like, no, I want, everybody needs this because like this, it is like, what? Like how did we figure this out? This is amazing. And like, kudos to Jean Pierre, you know, for the general listening and the listening and like how powerful that was.
Like I'm so grateful that I learned that. And then I'm also like so grateful that however my brain worked, figured out a way to help you all do it without having to, you know, necessarily learn that or at least have something to compliment it. And so it's like so exciting. Mm-hmm. And then. Yeah. I just am like, this is, this is great.
I love this. Yeah. I mean, you really have taken from all these other people that you've learned from and been able to curate it into something. And I think that's a lot of what we do in our work is just like taking all of these dogmas and philosophies and practices that work and then turning it into something that's digestible and like, like something that you can replicate.
Yeah. And something that like actually revolutionizes healthcare and gets people better and not just like staying stuck in the six cycle mm-hmm. Or the injured cycle. Mm-hmm. And, and like, I think that's, that's a huge testament into like the, this skill set that you have cultivated and like refined yourself to be able to bring all of that and just be like, here.
Yeah. I have made the complex simple enough for you. Yeah. So you can go tackle the complex. Yeah. Like that's, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I had something else I was gonna say, but I forgot it, so it wasn't that important. But, um, I'm just so grateful for you all. Thank you for sharing with the group. Um, is it okay?
Uh, I don't, Sarah, are you on social media? Are you like I'm, yeah. Yeah. So if I think I follow you, yeah, I think so. I don't know, I'm not like the most active on social media, but that is something that I'm intending to change as the years wrapping up. But, well, will you just shoot me a message real quick?
So I, I'm pretty sure I follow you, but just in case. Yeah. Um, and if it's okay with both of you, I'm gonna share your profiles Yes. In the group. Yeah. So if people have questions, then they wanna ask you directly then. I'm just gonna tell, you know, encourage that. Um, especially since this group, this Facebook group you guys might not be in.
So it's like they can't tag you directly, but Perfect. Uh, thank you for that. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, I love it. This will go on the podcast, you know, I'll, I'll share all the things with you guys and, uh, yeah, I just appreciate you so much and keep like, having fun with it and, uh, keep me posted how it goes and thanks for trying to change the world with me.
I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Great. You're welcome. Bye ladies. Bye. Bye.