From Hopelessness to Hope: How LTAP™ Transforms Chronic Pain & Athletic Rehab - Alumni Interview
LTAP™ alumni Beth Drayer (athletic trainer in Los Angeles) and Sarah Lane (lymphatic and soft tissue therapist in London) join me to share how the LTAP™ framework completely shifted their practices.
Sarah opens up about her own 18-year battle with chronic pain, how the Missing Link training led her to the discovery of fibroids that no one else had identified, and how learning LTAP now helps her guide chronic pain clients out of overwhelm with clarity and confidence. Beth reflects on her decades as an AT, and how LTAP™ challenged her old biomechanical lens, gave her tools beyond “digging in on hip flexors,” and taught her to create real change in 1–3 sessions instead of chasing symptoms.
Whether you’re working with athletes or chronic pain clients, this episode is full of stories, laughter, and the kind of paradigm-shifting insight that proves LTAP™ isn’t just a course—it’s a career-changing framework.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Ready to join the REVolution? The Fall 2025 Online Cohort of the LTAP™ Level 1 is open for enrollment!
Learn the LTAP™ In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Unreal Results Podcast. Got another bonus episode for you as we're in day. Three day three of the enrollment period for the online course. So trying to the online ltap level one course. So trying to give you as much opportunity to hear from, from past participants as possible so you can sort of like see how this, uh, framework will fit in your own practice.
Today we have, um. Two practitioners, Beth Drayer, uh, athletic trainer, um, up in the LA area that's been learning from me for many years. And then Sarah Lane, a therapist in the UK that works, uh, with chronic pain patients. So, uh, both of them came and join me for a great talk and I hope you enjoy it.
All right. Now it says we're live. Perfect. All right, well, uh, welcome. Hello everyone. Um, I've got another fun Facebook Live for us today with some of the Ltap alumni we have. Um, on the call now we have two Ltap alumni, uh, Beth and Sarah. And then we might have a third one joining us in a little bit. Uh, but they're coming on to share about their, um, experience.
With the Ltap and their own unique practice. And then also the experience on the like learning process. So, um, stoked to have them both here, I'll let them introduce themselves as well so they can tell you where they are, um, what population they work with, what kind of practitioner they are, and uh, we can go from there.
So Sarah, you wanna kick it off for us? Uh, sure. So I'm Sarah Lane and I'm based in London, Southeast London, and I am a lymphatic and also sub tissue therapist. I work with academically women who are in chronic pain. Um, sometimes I do treat my client's husbands, but academically I work with women. Yeah, that's like me.
I am like, mostly I work with men, but sometimes I treat their husbands and girlfriends. Yeah. That's like, can you look at my, you know, my husband? Yeah. That's funny. Cool. Beth, you wanna do a little intro? Uh, I'm Beth Drayer. Uh, I am sorry. I am based in, uh, Los Angeles, uh, Nando Beach. Uh, I treat, I'm a certified athletic trainer, um, private practice mostly, uh, active aging, and then also work with, uh, volleyball, uh, USA volleyball stuff.
So, um, yeah, that's pretty much what I do. Sweet. I love it. Yeah. Um, Beth's been in the, um, movement rev education community for quite a while. So she's, she has been, um, learning the ltap since I pretty much put it out there and, um, has seen iterations of the course both online and in person as it continues to kind of get refined and more clear and like, um.
Make more sense. So she'll be, um, you know, she'll have some good perspectives to add. And then Sarah's fairly new to the movement. Rev community. Uh, you took the online course, was it last fall or the spring? No, it was this spring, actually. This spring, yeah. So Sarah's fairly new here, so I'm looking forward to seeing how she's doing with it and integrating it.
And obviously since she is in the uk, um, she has not been able to come to an in-person course since I have not done any, um, UK or Europe courses. So, um, it'll be, I, I am looking forward to hearing about your experience with the online piece too. Um. Uh, what, uh, what do I wanna say? Like, uh, one of those things, the, that tends to be a question that a lot of people have is like, what's the difference?
People get a little confused of like, wait, is it the same course? And it's like, yes, yes, it's the same course. It's the same exact thing. I think the fullest learning experience is doing both online and in person, but because there's so many barriers to coming to an in-person course, especially if you don't live in the same country that I'm teaching in, um, you know, it's like the online is the next best option.
And, um, as a lot of us had to go online during the, the old pandemic days, um, we've, you know, we've been in this online space for a while and I think. I've been pleasantly surprised what a great environment it is actually to teach even things like this that are very hands-on and just, I think mostly to be able to compliment an in-person experience eventually.
But then also we've all probably gone to a weekend course and learned all the things and felt confident in the class. And then on Monday you go and you're like, what the, I can't remember anything. And then you end up like not using the information and not really make, like getting the value out of it.
And so I think that is what the online experience really adds for most people is um, a way to have a chance to like. Refine and deepen your knowledge and go back to it over and over again for refreshers. Um, which is why I am like, feel so strongly about the lifetime access kind of clause and inviting people back for future rounds because it's like, I really want to teach this work to like change the world and provide better results for our clients.
And I recognize that like going to a weekend course just doesn't do that for people. And so, um, yeah, obviously that's, that's why I have both. Uh, so, um, with that said, if, if you, Sarah, if you wanna talk about how it has been for you, you know, how it was during the online course learning and practicing and applying, and then kind of like where you're at now with it.
I would love to hear from you. No, it, it, it is ama So I, I've, I've been stalking you for a long time, like, literally. Like literally many years. So I, I would follow you on social and I would hear you talk about stuff like, you know, like if you have uncle pain, you know, like that's linked to, um, your organs and visceral.
And I'd be like, what's she talking about? And it's like, but for some reason there was just like this really attraction, like I just kept on coming back. And then when you did, um, this was a couple of years ago. I, I've done the missing link twice. Mm-hmm. Um, when I did the missing link, um, the first time personally, I was having, uh, a lot of chronic pain for 18 years.
Mm. Oh wow. And one day I listened to a podcast that you were doing and you were sharing about your mom. Mm. You know, and you were saying had they, you know, checked Right. They could helped her. And that, I don't know, there was something inside of me where it was like, do you know what? I did the missing link again when I did that.
You probably don't remember, but I sent you an email mm-hmm. And I said to you, I'm really struggling with, um, chronic pain, but for some reason nobody can find what's wrong with me. Oh, right. Did the missing link, it led me to my organs around the pelvic. Mm. So I went and had an MRI scan. This is after five, six years.
I've seen everybody that didn't scans nothing. After, from your recommendation, actually I contacted you on social. You, you said you should go and have, uh, an MRI scan just to rule out and make sure it's not anything serious. So it ended up that I had fibroids. Mm-hmm. So all the problems I was having, it was because of fibroids.
Mm-hmm. It was through the missing link and me communicating with you on social that I was able to get to the root cause of my chronic pain. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I do. Now that you say it, I'm like, I do vaguely remember you reaching out to me and saying that and be like, it keeps coming back to this and I can't figure it out.
And I'm like, yeah, go get it. And so I love that. I'm so glad I that you were able to find that answer and, and I was able to help you with that. And, and, um, I've had, I had another client who, yeah, she, I, I mean I was seeing her in person and she just had this pain that it's like I couldn't, I couldn't change.
And actually when we did some of the cordis ball stuff, it actually made her more painful. She didn't like it. And um, yeah, she finally went back to her doctors and same thing, she had a bunch of fibroids and once she had got that dealt with, then her pain went away. And I was just like, this is amazing. So I love that, like, how powerful for you to have pain that long is just.
And this is after seeing, like when I say I've seen like everybody. Yeah. And nobody put their fingers on to say, Hmm. And this is after I've had other scans and MRI scans, nobody was able to say, Hey, you have fibroids, but it's through the missing link. I was able to find that, okay, my issue is visceral, but not only just visceral, but it's in my pel.
Yeah, definitely. And then, yeah, so then, um, it's been a year actually then I made a decision to have, um, to have, they offered me medication or an operation, but I was like, I don't wanna do an operation. Yeah. Let me go to the medication to try and see if we can shrink the fibroids. Mm-hmm. And what they didn't tell me the side effects to the medication put me to menopause.
Mm. So now I had menopause plus the issues with the fibroids. Mm-hmm. But then, um, after, um, I did. I decided that I'm gonna have a hysterectomy. So it's been a year since I had a hysterectomy. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I've never felt better than I feel now. And, and, and in terms of when I did in spring, I finally did, um, the online course.
Mm-hmm. Which I absolutely really, really loved. And fast forwarding now where I am now as a practi practitioner, especially when you work with chronic pain, sometimes it's just so overwhelming. 'cause it's like, where do you start from? Mm-hmm. But after doing the L Tap online, it's the first thing I start with.
And it's, you know, and then, so now my clients are kind of like, okay, there's no way I can lie to you what's going on with my body, but I, I don't know if you guys experience the same thing. So sometimes clients, they won't put it on an intake form. Mm-hmm. And they have something massive going on and it's through doing the ltap, I get to discover it goes, actually, I should have told you that.
Yeah. And I'm like, well, your body doesn't lie. Your body's actually telling us where to go. Mm-hmm. That is, you are correct. I get that all the time because my clientele, I think sometimes with the chronic pain patients, they don't wanna write everything down. 'cause it just feels so much that they're just like, I'm gonna write down what the current problem is.
And then with my clients. With the athletes, it's a little bit like that. There's just so much has happened to them. They're like, eh. But then both them and um, then my like military clients, like they just don't want things documented. Oh, why? Yeah. And so they are just like, won't write anything down. And so like, I don't, like, it's fine because I don't often look at the subjective history stuff anyways because Exactly.
The body always takes me to the things. And I get that all the time. They're like, how did you know that? And then it becomes a game where they're like, I'm, they come in and I can tell that like, something new is going on and they're just like, figure it out. So I love that. A client recently and um, she had fibromyalgia.
You know, and on this day she was really having a bad day and she came in reading a bad mood. It's like nothing is working. Everything is not working. So I said to her, okay, so I did the ltap, let's see where we start from. Yeah. And it led me to her calling. So released it. And she was like, today I really came in.
Right. Just really to test you. Just to really, yeah. Just to see to whether you know what you're doing, you know? And I said, and I said to her, you know, it's not about testing me, it's about me being able to communicate with your body and your body leading me where we need to work. Yeah. You know, actually I, I felt really good.
Like, I felt really good. 'cause I was like, you know what, with a ltap, I know where to start from and where to start from. That's the pain that she didn't wanna tell me. So after I found what it was, she goes, I was actually testing you to see if you really know what you're doing. That's funny. I love that.
Oh, all right. Well, Beth, I don't know how you beat that, those stories, so I was like, I'm just gonna sit here. This is entertaining. I know, I know. Sorry. No, I mean, um, I think it's worth, um, I know you've, you've been on these alumni panels before and on the podcast, but, um, I think it's, I love, I love it when people hear a story because since you are, since you've like, opened up and said it, like why you decided to take it in the first place.
Like a lot of people actually are like, yeah, that's the same reason I did too. So, so please tell, tell the people why you, like, what, what was going on when you decided to take it? When, when I finally decided it was, what'd I do? I think I did 21. I think it was 21. No, I did the whatever, the mentorship ish.
Thing was at that time, Uhhuh. And, uh, you had put a post up and you're like, do you treat holistically? And I was like, sure. Head to toe. Everything's connected. Yeah, of course. And you're like, do you take into account the viscera and the nervous system? I'm like, I should, shouldn't I? You're like, yeah. I was like, well, okay.
And, and then once, once we started, uh, yeah, everything kind of fell into place, makes a whole lot more sense. And you're like, yeah, that was like, literally like treating the entire, as you say, organism, the entire body and just taking all the, all the things into a consideration that, uh, I hadn't for the last 20 plus years of Yeah.
My career. Um, and, and it, and it makes you look back and you're like, oh. If I knew this, then how would I have, you know, oh yeah. Treated this thing differently and gone about this one differently and stuff like that. Um, mm-hmm. So yeah, there's, there's definitely been a, a little bit of that, but, um, yeah, it, it's definitely changed the trajectory and, and outlook of everything I do.
Mm-hmm. Um, from this point, um, I think from being early on in, in where I am now and in seeing how you teach things now, like the difference in how quickly people grasp this, whereas like, it took me like a good year to be like. Feeling like I could do this part of the test now. Yeah. Whereas, whereas like now watching you go through, you know, the ltap one class in, in two days and people are, you know, going back on Monday and being able to like, implement it right away.
And I was like, what is going on? You're like, why is it, does this fair? Why did it take you so long? Um, but, but like, even, even even seeing it through, through the online, like just, I think that piece is like the way you break it up and do like test by test and make them go work on that specific piece and then piece it all together, like just is a, is a great way to, um, be able to learn it and implement it and feel comfortable with it fairly immediately.
Um, whereas I feel. In the beginning it was, you know, it was so new for me and such a new concepts and stuff mm-hmm. That it just really took me a while to, to grasp it and, and implement it and feel comfortable doing it. But now, yeah. Yeah. Pretty much everybody that comes in, we're doing it, so. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that. Mm-hmm. Um, I think, you know, as far as like the learning parts improving too, obviously the more I teach it, the more I like, know where people's questions come up and so I address them before they're even a question. Yeah. Um, which I think has helped too, which obviously is like you and the people who.
Started at the beginning or part of that, you know, so I'm like very thankful that you were willing to like, struggle with it for a little bit so I could like help figure out the best way to help you. Yeah. Um, realize it and then also like, you know, people that came into my education, you know, around when you do a lot of, a lot of you were like my original crew of people who even learned from me in my past life.
Yeah. When it was just more biomechanical whole body. Yeah. Like you talking about. And so it, like you did go through a, a bit more like dissonance, um, with having your belief system challenged about the, you know, the biomechanics not being the whole thing. And you know what I alluded to too, saying like your story of like why you did it, um.
There's two stories that people tell me that kind of like the unwanted, or not the unwanted experience, but like the reason why they're like, I wanna see what this is all about, is like you, you feel called out a little bit of like, wait, I, I treat the whole body. What are you talking about? Like telling me I don't, and then the other sort of called out piece is, you know, when I start telling people that I get results in one to three sessions, it seems so unbelievable that you're like, also feel called out because you're like, wait, I'm good, but I'm not that good.
Yeah. And so those like, you know, and it, and it is, it's like, so you enter feeling called out and then it is just like a constant fight of the dissonance of like breaking through these deeply held beliefs and like, especially those of us who are older practitioners, it's like. That is deeply ingrained in us.
Yeah. Deeply. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And when you started with like the, the one to three sessions thing and I was like, I can't say that. Like I, it like it did not feel good to me to say that. Right. Like yeah. But I will say like it was a mind shift for me to be like, she's not saying she's fixing people a hundred percent in the first session.
She's making a change in their situation in one to three sessions. And once I wrap my head around that piece, like I felt way better about that. Yeah. And can easily say that we're going to make changes. A hundred percent. Yeah. Big changes. Yeah. And, and big changes. But it's like, especially like, are you gonna walk outta here pain-free in two sessions?
Probably not. Depending on what's going on. Right. Yeah. But like, I have no problem saying that you're gonna walk outta here feeling completely different Yeah. Than you walked in. Yeah. And, and so, um, that was a, like you said, that was another big challenge. I was like, what are you talking about? Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, you know, because I do of my people, like there is a lot of them that it does get, go completely away in one session or something.
Yeah, for sure. And, um, but then yes, of course there's like, yeah. I mean, there's other situations where it's not, but yeah. We're always making a big change. Yeah. And, um, I think that this always goes back to too, like the whole purpose and, and kind of like Sarah touched on this too, is like, it's not even to get results, like, like to say that you can guarantee results in one to three.
Sessions. It's almost too like putting yourself on the hook in terms of not getting the result, but not settling for the mediocre, just like we're gonna be in rehab purgatory forever. Yeah. Like making a, like it forces you to make a decision on like, is this truly something I can help AKA, is this something truly musculoskeletal or do I need to refer them somewhere?
You know, so it's like I've had a handful of my Navy guys come in and like day one I evaluate them and I'm like, Ooh, I think this might be something that you need. Like that's surgical. And um, I'll give it a treatment. And if they don't respond to how I know they will respond like, 'cause everybody else does.
I was like, yeah, a hundred percent I can't, like you need to go get an M mri. And so it's just like, it's forced me because, well, because I get better results and because I have that guarantee and then I have that guarantee because I was seeing the pattern in everyone, but that I was making significant changes, if not completely fixing things in one to three visits.
So it's sort of like, I'm not gonna treat your knee more than three times. If it's like not shifting and it's still giving me the same messages, I'm like, oh yeah, we need an MRI because this is not your it man. Yeah. This is a meniscus tear. Yeah. So, um, it's just, it's so nice because I was thinking about like.
You know, like the podcast episode I just put out on the outcomes. I'd say like some people loved it and some people were like, bullshit still? And, and I'm like, it's fair. I was hesitant to even talk about it because it feels like bullshit. But I was like, yeah, well actually interesting. I've had two people this week come in and I'm like, this isn't like you need an M mri, this, I can't help you.
And I'm like, do I consider those failures? No, those are successes. 'cause they came to me for an answer and I gave them the correct answer, which was I can't help you because you have a stress fracture. Yeah. Well 'cause if it wasn't for that, I would, I would've still, because the last person I saw before I did, um, the missing link, they said to me, there's nothing they can do for me.
Right. Yeah. But because of my persistent, I was like, okay, just because you can't help me. Yeah. It doesn't mean we can't figure out the answer. Yeah. So without the missing link, really, I would've never known that my root cause of my problems was mm-hmm. Fibroid and I needed to have an MRI scan done. Yeah.
And that's after doing other MRI scan. But what the missing link did for me, I was very specific when I went and I want to have an MRI scan on my pelvic Yes. And around the abdomen area. Yeah. So that was able to narrow down exactly mm-hmm. What we were looking for. And in terms of an outcome, yes. It hasn't been an easy journey.
Yeah. But guess what? At least I know that's ticked off as, as you're saying, I think sometimes, so working with women with chronic pain, sometimes there's just so much going on, and as a practitioner it can be so overwhelming where you're like, because they're chasing pain. Mm-hmm. And you're like, gosh, where do I start from?
Mm-hmm. But with a L tap. I'm like, I think my favorite for me is actually number five when it leads me down to the lower extremity. Yeah. I dunno why I, I just love that because the fact that when I like put, you know, like trying to prohibited the other areas in order to get the pulse. Mm-hmm. It hard on me.
I just get really excited. 'cause when I get it I'm like, yeah, I've got it. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it's just really good, you know? I love that. Yeah. It, yeah. I think too, like what you're saying too is like the difference, you know, be like if we're comparing like the stress fracture guy or the, my meniscus like guy the other day to your experience with your last practitioner is your last practitioner virtually said, said the same thing as me, which is like, I can't help you right now.
Right. But the difference was, and why I consider what I did successful and what they did not successful is because I said, I can't help you because you have something that needs something else and I'm gonna help you get that something else. Right? Yeah. And so it's like I set up the MRI for them. Like I, they haven't left my care.
Yeah. Because I am confident that this is not something I can fix with my hands or exercise right now. And then, so it's like, you know, which is like, yeah, thank, thank God that you found the missing link so you could help diagnose it on yourself. Because the person before, if they're just like, sorry, I can't help you.
Yeah. And that's what I said, you know? Yeah. So I think in terms of investment, for me, my goal now is to come to, you know, the in-person one. Yeah. Because I, I love that. I'm just so excited to actually. Allow, you know, like you saying, okay, feel this and actually being able to feel exactly what you are saying.
Yeah. And, and that goal for me, and I'm hoping maybe next year mm-hmm. I'll come to, you know, the in-person one. And I think what the L Tap has done for me as well in terms of you, you are very good at explaining, um, the Borough Institutes how they work. Because I think without you, I wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about, but every time you will talk about an All gun or visceral, and I'll be like, when I go now to the Barra classes, in my head I'm like, okay, this is what Anna says.
And I'm like, oh, so is this what Anna means? So in terms of confidence, rather than when I, you know, you said you go to a course, we do it. Okay. The Barra then normally at five days. It's good, but you're so overwhelmed with so much information. Like you said, by the time you get to practice, you're like, what am I doing?
But with the ltap, when it does lead me to visceral, I now feel confident knowing actually where all the organs are, because I'm now using on a regular basis rather than with the Borough Institute. I didn't know where to start from. I, I felt really intimidated. But with the l I'm like, I don't even have to go deep as long as I attach the right place.
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, in terms of confidence, that's been really good for me. I love that. Yeah. And I would love to see you in person. I mean, hopefully eventually I wanna do courses out there, but Yeah. Yes. It might be sooner if you just come to me. I, I, I thought you were gonna say, it might be soon that I'm coming to you.
No, unfortunately. No. Um, that's funny. No, but to that, to that point, like, like. You're saying, I just had somebody that's been basically, they've gone through all the things, have this chronic foot pain, and they're like, they've had surgery already and all this other stuff, and they're like, I don't know what to do.
They feel hopeless, but like once you, you're like, I can help you 'cause this is what's going on, or I can't help you, but this is what's going on. That at least gives them hope. And I think a lot of the people mm-hmm. Right? They, they don't have that and Yeah. You know, like Sarah, your practitioner, you're like, I can't help you.
You're like, now you feel hopeless because another person can't help you. But the difference is you're like, I, I can't fix this specific thing for you, but this is what's going on. And it, and it gives them hope that there's an answer. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, like same thing, like I've had many people with, with that kind of experience as well, and they're like, I, I didn't think, you know, I thought I was gonna be paying.
In paying for the rest of my life, and now we're mm-hmm. Doing things that they never thought they'd be doing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then, I mean, and it's one of those things too that it's like, I, I agree. I think I always tell people, I'm like, we're like hope dealers. Like, I mean, we really are because we're also looking at it for most, per what'd you say, we need, you need to make a post.
Say, I'm a hope dealer. I'm a hope dealer. And just be like, um, but it, but it is. Go up the street and just be like, hope. Yeah. That's funny. Um, open the jacket. Hope Yes. Um, no, but I mean, you're right. Like at the end of the day, so many people want that and especially the people who come to us are like, I've tried a million things.
Nobody can figure it out. They do feel like something's wrong with like, they're broken. Yeah. Like that they're this rant that, that, that they must be an outlay or everybody else gets results, but they're just like, hopeless. Yeah. And it's like, well, that's not true. You're just like, haven't found the right spot yet.
And, um, and it, when it is a scenario of like, I clearly know I can't help, I am also like, Hey. Don't worry, we're gonna get to the bottom of this and we're gonna figure it out. Right. And I'm gonna try all the things and like, you know, but we're like, the assurance I want to tell people is like, this is, you're not gonna be coming in three, four times a week for eight weeks, just because, right.
Especially if we're not making changes. Like, you're still going to be a top priority for me to help figure out what you need, but I'm not gonna waste your time and your money, um, blowing smoke up your ass, being like, you need like, it, this takes time and you need more strengthening exercises, or you need more manual therapy.
Like, nah. Right. But we gotta have a better, clearer scenario of like what the actual plan is for that stuff. So, and I think sometimes, you know, when I've, when I've had some chronic pain or complex patients, complex cases, patients come in, I think what's maybe a little bit, um. Refreshing for them. I don't, and this is gonna sound rude a little bit, I don't let them ruminate, ruminate on their story about all the things that hurt in their body and like how their pain has traveled around their body with it this week.
And this is what the Ltap provides is like, and after a while they realize like, I don't really care about your, I like, I don't, I care, but I don't really care. Because it's like when they're listing off all the things that are wrong and all the things they feel, it's just like it's keeping them stuck in that hopelessness of like something's wrong with them.
Yeah. And then it distracts you on where to go because you also are like, oh my gosh, your poor story. You've had all these things happen to you like, and you've had this major thing and this crazy ass infection in this area of your body and it must be that, but it's like, no, it's actually, you're getting distracted.
It's not that. Yeah. You know, and so it's like, I, I think I shared recently on one of the podcasts, one of my friends that I'm seeing, he's complex patient, and that is him. And it's like, well, when I do the ltap, it just brings me to your shins. You know, like, it's like, can we just treat your shins? And then they're like, oh, okay.
And which arguably is usually away from the area that he's currently having pain. But then we work on his shins, we follow the ltap, we restore his pulse, which is so fun like Sarah said. And then he gets off the table and he was like, oh my gosh. And then the next week I see him, he is like, that's like the best I felt, and like three or four days.
And I was like, great, great. And it's like, great. And then so every time he comes in. You know, sometimes if he has a flare up, he will tell me a little bit more about the story. And I can tell that he's like, ruminating in all the story, but it's like I just bring him out of it and I'm like, well, let's see what your body has to say today.
Yeah. Let's just be curious how we can shift this today. And it's just, it does, it, it, it brings the hope back and it takes the pressure off of them feeling like there's something wrong with them and feeling like they're not fixable. Yeah. So, yeah. I, I think sometimes it is. I find in my experience, um, people like labels, if I know the label, at least I've got something to hang on to.
Yeah. Yeah. And I have a lot of discussions with my clients and when they do get better, actually they're honest and they're like, I don't know who to be now. Yeah. I had this labor for so many years now that I don't have it, you now have an expectation of me to do better. It's like, I don't know what that looks like.
Yeah. But I'm. I have history with the label. Mm-hmm. And everybody knows what the label is. Yeah. And now that I'm getting better, it's like, it's uncomfortable. Yeah. It's very uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable. And you know, I challenge my clients a lot. You know, when they get back into that store, I'm like, okay, let's start again now.
You know? Yeah. Or if I give them a compliment, I'm like, oh, you are doing really well. No, but I didn't do it. I say, okay, let's stop there. Yeah. And start again. You are doing really well. Yeah. And I want you to take that as a compliment. Yeah, yeah. Total reframe. Yeah. It's so easy to get caught up in whatever the story is.
Mm-hmm. But sometimes as a practitioner, it takes experience. How do you help your clients to feel like you are hearing them? Mm-hmm. They're hurt, but yet they keep chasing the pain. Although you are saying to them, right. Where you are feeling the pain, actually, that's not where the source of the root cause is.
Yeah. But they just going back to the source of, source of the pain. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, you wanna help them to make sure that you are hearing them, but essentially they're coming to you because they want you to find some form of solution, whatever, how that's gonna look like. Yeah. You know, and as a practitioner, sometimes that can be challenging, but I think mm-hmm.
Absolutely. Yeah. With the ltap, for me it's, it, it's been such a game changer, even for me personally. Like some moans I wake up and I'm like, and my body just, I feel like it's all over the place. Mm-hmm. And if my daughter's at home, she's 10. So for the bits that where I need somebody else, I'll say to her, right, I want you to touch this place.
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It is quite, it is really cool, honestly. Yeah. And then I'm like, right. Okay, so this is where we're gonna start. Yeah. With today. From clients, what's been really interesting, like, 'cause I, I usually have them sometimes for about six weeks. Mm-hmm. What I want is if they come in, let's say for example, for like three sessions, and then the Ltap is leading me to the Navi system, then like the fourth session they'll come in and it's not leading me to, um, the nervous system.
It's now to the lower extremity. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I find that really fascinating. Mm-hmm. And then the question is like, is it all the nervous system stuff that we've been doing, why the nervous system is now no longer protecting the body? Yeah. It is just really amazing. I, yeah. You know, I'm really enjoying learning.
I am, yeah. I love it. The body, I mean, that's a, that's one of my favorite things about it is it just allows you to like, have so much more awe and curiosity about like how the body. Figures things out and like maintains this homeostasis and like, it is, it is fascinating. So I love that you're feeling that.
I was gonna say, my, my favorite when they come in are like, I've tried everything and I'm like, but have, have you, because you probably haven't tried this exactly, because I don't think you've tried, but we're about to do, so I've tried everything for that. They mean all the tools, all the modalities, all the different type of practitioners.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're the fun ones. I'm like, cool, I'm glad, I'm glad you said that. Let's try this. Yeah. Yeah. I had a guy, I came in the other day with knee pain. He didn't even tell me when he came in. He was just like, oh, I have this little bit of knee pain. It's kind of been on and off for like two years, but I, I, you know, it's not like anything major.
I just like figured this is the time to like, make things feel better between these sessions that he is in. And I was like, okay. So I worked on and had central nervous system tension and I treated that and we had to cut the appointment short. Um, so that's all I did. And then the next day I know his roommate, so the next day his roommates were like, dude, he, his mind is blown because he has no knee pain.
And he came in yesterday and he was like, Anna, I've had this knee pain for two years. He is like, I've seen so many people I've, he goes, and also, like, I've done so many things on my own, like I've research so much. He's like, he goes, I've easily spent 200 hours focusing on over the two years, like focusing over, you know, and he was like.
Easily. Like, he's like easily, he's like, not to mention how much money I spent. He's like, and then you just came in and you did this weird thing to my head and like, I have no pain. Like, it, it is not even reminiscent. Like it used to hurt. It just like, is like gone. He was like, what? He's like, how are you not a trillionaire?
I was like, that's a great question. Working on it. Oh, now, yeah. Um, you are like, great, I'll raise my rates tomorrow. Thanks. Yeah, sure. Well I was like, I'm not a trillionaire because you all barely pay me anything. But, um, no, it, it, it is so much fun. So I, I love hearing stories from you all and how you're having, how you're enjoying it.
And um, I would love to hear, um. Well, I mean, I would love to, what do I wanna hear? We talked about what kind of led you here. Um, we talked, we've been talking about the results you're getting a little bit. So, um, and the learning experience we talked about. What else we have left? Um, oh, I would love to hear just how each of you sort of integrate it into your practice.
Like what does a normal session look like with you, um, while you're using it with your patients? Hmm. Mm-hmm. So, um, with me, so the first thing I do when they come in is actually I do the Ltap first. Mm-hmm. And, um, wherever it leads me, we start from there. Mm-hmm. So, with most of my clients or how a normal session would look like, I do a lot of, um, another system stuff.
Mm-hmm. So if the Ltap leads me there, that's great. Because that's like, okay, that's gonna actually make this the session a little bit quicker. Mm-hmm. Because that's, we're gonna start from, so we would do, um, nervous system stuff. Sometimes it's just as simple as a trigeminal nerve. Mm-hmm. Stretch or, um, the one where you lie down and you use your eyes to Oh yeah.
Basic capture, use that quite actually, if anything, I use that quite a lot and it's been really interesting with that one. When I start working with people where they're really struggling and as they progress and they do it and they immediately then have a system just works immediately. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And then once I've finished that, then depending on whatever they've come in with, usually then I'll just go on into treatment. Mm-hmm. Okay. Cool. Beth, what about you? Yeah. So I do it at the end usually of my, if it's a, if it's a first, if it's a first time assessment, I do it at the end. I'll go through a, a bit of, like a holistic kind of assessment, have them walk and do a bunch of other movements and stuff like that, just to kind of see how their body moves.
And that kind of started with like the Z health stuff that I had started with. Mm-hmm. And then, um, 'cause then I can see changes that we make through that as well. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, but if it's, uh, if it's somebody who's I, I see regularly or see, um, it's their second session or something like that, it'll be the first thing I do.
And then mm-hmm. We'll go from there. Um, well, when you say it's the last thing you do, you mean the last assessment you do? The last assessment I do, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The assessment. I do. Yeah. And then, and then, and then go through, you know, what we're gonna do for, from. From that point on. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so it's the last assessment I do.
And then usually it's a courtes ball breathing type exercise if it's neural or visceral, depending. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, and then from that, usually have them walk again because I see some changes and they'll start seeing changes just from like, gorgeous ball breathing. And they're like, yeah, why the hell did that work and why are, uh, and then from there then we'll do some other, you know, um, give them some other things for homework and things like that.
But yeah, it's, it's depending on, again, if it's their first session, it's the last assessment I do. If it's a re, uh, an a, a. New session after their initial, then it's the first thing I do, and then we'll move on from there, depending on what comes up. I, I do have a question. Um, one of the questions I get a lot is pe people who have gone through Z Health or like Missy Bunches mentorship.
Yeah. Um, how are you integrating the two? So my question, you said like you use the cortisol breathing a lot for nervous system and viscera, like when there's central nervous system tension pattern, is that your go-to? Or do you break it down and do more neurology, functional neurology tests first? Um, usually I usually not, I'll, I'll do, I'll do some eye movement stuff as well as my next thing usually.
Mm-hmm. Um, but I don't, I don't go through like the whole, um, like cranial nerve assessments go through all, I don't go through all 12 of them. Right? Yeah. Do you go through any of them or just tell you do some container? Uh, usually go straight to the eyes. Um, and then, and then if, if I'm not getting a response from an eye exercise, then I'll, then I'll actually usually go back towards, um, the cranium and do things on the other side.
So do more like a distraction and like accessory. Oh, you'll do manual therapy? Yeah. Then I'll do like a manual therapy type thing for that and see if I get, uh, a response from that. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I might, I I, there's not necessarily the right way, I'm just kind of curious 'cause Yeah, I mean, I do know that like the Z Health and Missy stuff, it's like, can be very helpful and powerful, but it's a lot of assessing.
Um, and so, um, you know, the way we break it up in the. Well, for level one, we're basically just talking about central nervous system, tension pattern being there, a container, a container issue, as well as a functional issue perhaps. But I would, I always treat the container first before I treat the functional stuff, but that's my preference because there's usually, if, if there is a functional thing, there's also a container thing.
Sure. And so, um, why not treat both? And I only will go to all the functional assessment things when I have something that's not sticking in the essential nervous system. Yeah. Or, um, if the rest of my listening assessment takes me to the brain itself. So, yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So like, uh, I, I know you, you do a lot of trigeminal nerve stuff and, and I think Missy does like a lot of the eye stuff, right?
Mm-hmm. So like, um. For me, it's easier for me to in integrate eye stuff with some of the movement things. Um, especially since some of the people that I work with are like on the older side, so like the balance, the vestibular stuff, and it getting a response to that like right away, like when they walk and they're like, I feel way more balanced.
Yeah. If, if I can get that response, then everything else just gets so much easier. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's usually why, that's usually why I go eyes. Um, yeah. Yeah. And then, and then if it's not sticking, then I'm like, all right, now where are we gonna go? Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I incorporate a lot actually in everything that I do, a lot of spine work as well.
Mm-hmm. Because I, that, um, when someone has been in chronic pain for a long time, calming the body down. Um, is one of the things that helps me for the result to stick. Mm-hmm. After I do my ltap, then if, if, if there's no, if we're not doing any lymphatic stuff, but to be quite honest, I do lymphatic stuff and I do a lot of swelling stuff as well.
So I would do the ltap first, then go ahead and do the lymphatics. Mm-hmm. Then go ahead and do spine stuff to calm down the another system and then go ahead and treat whatever else that's left to be treated by. With the l it actually helps me to, uh, cut time management. Mm-hmm. Rather than if it's nav, if it leads me to another system, I'm like, okay, it's great.
What am I gonna pick in order to address the central nervous system? And if each time they come in, if it's the another system, I'll pick something different and see what give the best outcome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much to choose sometimes that is, that is the tough part.
That's cool. Oh, I love that. Well, um, I know we're getting close to, um, an hour or so. Um, I'll give you space if there's anything that you feel like you really wanted to share with everyone, um, please do so. And then also kind of my last always parting words for, for this like interview is like, you know, if, if you were talking to a colleague and they were kind of like on the fence of whether they should take the course or not, like what would you tell them?
Um, and that's it. Uh, I would say like, if you are on a fence, definitely do it. Because for me, doing it online, actually, I think I'm glad I've done it online first because I keep going back to it. Mm-hmm. And every time I hear it, I'm like, how did I miss out this bit? Yeah. But this, how did I miss it out? So I'm really excited now that you're gonna do the four one, because I'm gonna redo that again.
Yeah. And I feel like I'm starting all over again. But it's a, it's, it is a good thing. Yeah. From a new place. You're starting over, but from a new level. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, 'cause I'm like, okay, what did I miss out last time? Mm-hmm. And, and how did I not see it? Mm-hmm. And in terms of as, as an investment, I think if you are thinking in terms of time management, you wanna get results, this is a definitely a way to go because it open, like we were talking, it opens you up to so many other different things.
You know, nervous system, you know, lower extremities. You're then bringing in nerve stuff, you're then bringing in lymphatics that, so there's so much that it can open you to. And I, and I think what I really love is that being in a Facebook and just looking at, you know, what people are getting results and they're like, oh, I used it for the first time and this is what I got.
And, and it's really encouraging because for me, in terms of visceral, I'm quite new to it. Mm-hmm. And when I was doing personal training, my goal was to get here where I now, and now I'm here. I'm like, this is just, it's just so exciting because, you know, like there's just so much to learn. Yeah. And it in a good, in good investment.
'cause I can't wait to come in person. Me too. I'm excited. All right, Beth? Um, I think. One of the things that I wanna, that I wanna share is like some of the conversations that I get to have, particularly with some of the athletes, um, and just k kind of trying to like, shift their mindset a little bit because I think, um, moving through the ranks of getting to higher levels of athletics, they're, you know, you see people, they're digging in on you and doing all these things, different treatments, and when you can explain it to 'em that, that's not always helpful, like, digging into your hip flexor every time, or, you know, things like that.
Or like doing things a little bit less aggressively mm-hmm. Where they're used to being just kind of dug in on like, day in and day out and explaining to them why that's not necessarily helpful and or you're chasing the wrong thing. It opens their eyes and it, it, it, it's gonna advance everything that way as well.
Um, so being able to explain it in ways that people are easily understanding and you've been able to help. Guide my words for that. Yeah. Which has been super cool. Um, like over the past week had probably the same conversation with three different athletes of like, yeah. They're like, can you just dig in on it?
I'm like, actually, no, I cannot. No, actually I'm not gonna do that, but we're still gonna get you to feel good. And they're like, okay. And then they're like, oh, that actually, like, you know, then they can raise their arm over their head. I'm like, great. 'cause you need to go hit the ball a bunch of times now, so go do that.
You know, like, so like, things like that I think are, is just been super cool. Um, to, and to get that kind of result and, you know, like a five minute session is awesome. Mm-hmm. Um, and as far as, what do I tell people? I tell people that they need to take it every time I see them. Um, I like, uh, after the, uh, after the, the ltap in the beginning of the month or beginning of September, whatever.
Yeah. I posted some stuff. People were like, oh, how was it? I'm like. Yeah, it's great. You should do it. Like, yeah, like, like I'm, I'm helping te helping her teach it now because it's that great. Like, they're like, oh, that's so cool. I'm like, yeah, you need to do it. And I probably had like six or seven people reach out with that response and I was like, yeah.
Like, why are you guys not doing it yet? Like, yeah, this will actually change your career. So, love that. We're working on it. I appreciate it. I know, I mean, obviously, well, obviously I'm, I, you guys volunteer to share this information with people. It's not like I expect you to be like, uh, yeah, don't take the course.
Um, but it's also like, I love, I just love, I just love hearing the alumni talk about it. I just love hearing how you all integrate it. Like how. It's just changed things and like, uh, like it's just the, the seeing the joy and the awe and the excitement that people have like months, years after learning it and still be doing it is just, it brings, uh, it just, I, I feel so fulfilled by that because, you know, kind of like full circle, the, back to the starting of this conversation, we talked about how normal continuing education courses, this is not the thing.
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And so I just feel so happy to be able to put, provide a level of education out there that actually does like change. Things like that actually can. Dramatically change your results and lead to more feelings of fulfillment and success and confidence in your practice. And be able to raise your rates, fill your wait list, like, and get the results for your clients and help people that, you know, kind of like Sarah was like in the spot of like, help people who really feel like they, they've lost hope and they can't be helped.
And that is just like the, the gift you guys are to your people is like huge. And, and I, nobody's told you that lately. You are a huge gift to them and, uh, the industry and the world. And it's like, I love, I just love being a small part of that. And so thank you. I think one of the other things that I really appreciate about you and how you have managed this is that you're not making mini mes of you.
You give us, you give us the tool and we, and say, use it how you want to Yeah. Like. It's, it's not like this will get you here and then after that, do whatever you want. Like Yeah. And it's so, it's freeing. It's not like you're making a little army of mini min minions and Min Yeah. Min Annas. Um, 'cause nobody's gonna have your brain.
Um, but, um, that's funny. You don't want me. Right. But like, I think that's, uh, a very, um, freeing piece of it as well is that you can really use it in however form you, you really want to. Yeah. And you don't have to throw out all the things you've already learned. Like, it just makes everything that you've already learned, everything that, all the things that you already practice, it just supercharges 'em.
Yeah. It just makes things cohesive. Mm-hmm. And that makes things way easier. Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you. Appreciate you. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for saying that. I, I, I do think that is like a huge thing and I don't, I don't want people to be exactly like me. I want, we are such unique people and we have our own unique experiences, both personally and professionally, that we bring to the table for our, our people, for our clients, for our family, for our community.
And it's like, why would I want to erase that? Like our, our diversity and our experiences is what gives us strength and like is, you know, our unique gift to the world. So I love, I love it. Yeah. And, and by improving your confidence, by getting you better results, like you are more apt to show your unique gifts to the world and like we all need more of that.
So I love that. Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Cool. Yeah. You're welcome. Well, thank you guys for joining me.