Moving from Parts to the Whole with using the LTAP™- An interview with level 1 course alumni
In this episode of Unreal Results, Anna sits down with LTAP™ alumni Taflyn Wilschinsky, a pelvic health physical therapist, and Nikki Bybee, a movement practitioner specializing in dancers. They dive deep into how the Locator Test Assessment Protocol™ (LTAP™) helped them confidently navigate complex cases, especially when clients presented with layered symptoms or extensive medical histories.
Taflyn shares how LTAP™ gave her the missing structure she needed to prioritize treatment for her diverse pelvic health patients, while Nikki explains how the assessment helped her bridge the gap between biomechanics and nervous system-driven strategies.
Together, they discuss why thinking in “parts” falls short, how to meet the body where it is, and how this work leads not only to faster, more efficient treatment but also to greater confidence, better client outcomes, and less burnout. Whether you're new to visceral and neural work or you've taken a dozen courses, this conversation is a refreshing look at what whole-body assessment and treatment can truly be.
Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Sign Up HERE for the 2025 Online LTAP™ Level 1 Course
Learn the LTAP™ In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Anna Hartman: Hey there and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs in the nervous system on movement, pain and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.
Welcome. We're in the missing like Facebook group. Um, I've got a couple more alumni to chat with you all. Um. As you've been seeing every day, I've been trying to bring as many people in here as I can to talk about the ltap.
So you're hearing it from somebody other than me. 'cause obviously I am biased. I created it. I think it's great. And then also, um, I'm very limited and sort of. The information I can share in terms of using it with all populations. 'cause I work with athletes and so part of the reason I bring alumni in is I wanna get you all to have an opportunity to hear from them how it works with various populations.
So today joining us on our live live two gas, um. Taflyn is a pelvic physical therapist up in Santa Cruz in Northern California. And then Nikki is a movement practitioner in Salt Lake City area. Right? Yeah. Salt Lake. So, um, I, I'm always like, I don't know how new you are to me, but, but, um, Nikki just did an in-person course with me this past weekend in Denver.
And then did the, um, did you do the online course before? I did the online course in November. Yeah, in, in the fall. Yeah. Um, and then Taflyn has been to, uh, level one in person and my beta level two in person with me, and also done the online course last fall or spring, I can't remember. Yeah, I think it was in the spring.
In the spring, okay. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, they both have different perspectives that they're gonna, um, share about, but I'm just gonna sort of give the floor to each of them at a time so you guys can introduce yourself and share again, like your profession and what population you work with and maybe, um, the unwanted experience you were having that led you to the Ltap.
So either of you can go, I don't, it doesn't matter to me. I
Nikki Bybee: guess I can
Anna Hartman: start. Go ahead.
Nikki Bybee: So, uh, my population, if I, if I get off course, just, you know, oh yeah. I'll
Anna Hartman: reel you back. Don't worry.
Nikki Bybee: Okay. Okay. Um, my population, I am working with a lot of dancers right now and the reason I was interested in the ltap is 'cause I had been taking a lot of biomechanics courses and then I started a neuro master training.
A course that I've been in for a year and a half at this point. And so, you know, in neural they say, oh, we start with the nervous system in biomechanics. They say, if the lower limb doesn't move you, nothing's gonna move. So I was kind of at this place where I was like, okay, so what if it is a lower limb?
Is it always gonna be the nervous system or could it be the lower limb? So that very question was where my brain was. And then I saw, I think it was an advertisement. And you nailed my question that it had been kind of percolating for, you know, several months at that point, and I was like, oh, this is the very question I've been pondering.
And then I was like, I have to sign up for this course because I've been thinking about this now for quite a while, and I want an answer. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. So you were, you had the, the question of like, where to start, like,
Nikki Bybee: yeah,
Anna Hartman: yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah,
Nikki Bybee: because the nervous system, you know. Uh, the people in neural were like always with neuro, always with neural.
And I was like, always, you know, whenever anyone says always, I'm like, always. That's, that's, that's strong. Yeah. Usually not
Anna Hartman: always. Yeah. Speaking an absolutes in a world of relative is like very strong.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Anna Hartman: That's awesome.
Nikki Bybee: That's, um, that's kind of what led me into your course. And then, uh, once I got in the course, I was really glad to see the inclusion of viscera.
'cause I had never really considered that and I. And I started thinking about, you know, yeah, like what do we do? And we have a stomach ache. We lean over and hold our stomach. So why wouldn't that posture affect all movement? It would, you know. Yeah. And I just hadn't really considered that. 'cause I had done, you know, fascial fitness training and you know, a lot of other things, but I hadn't really considered.
Uh, that idea. So considering that, that definitely changed, you know, my approach to how things were going and then using the assessments, uh, just feeling like I have a quick assessment. 'cause I do feel like I can run through some of it pretty quickly compared to some of the other stuff I was doing. Yeah.
Um,
Anna Hartman: absolutely.
Nikki Bybee: And getting started right away, you know, like, or continuing to assess, you know, whatever is needed really helped with like. Feeling like I was making progress really quickly with interventions. Yeah,
Anna Hartman: I love that. How about you Taplin? How, like what was your why for coming to the Ltap? Um, I.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: I heard you on a podcast some years ago and I was very intrigued.
Mm-hmm.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: But that was, I think, a little bit before I was, um, starting to be interested in visceral work, and then I started taking some visceral and neural like mobilization courses in the context of pelvic health. Mm-hmm. Like through organizations that train pelvic health, physical therapists. Um, and I was just like, I'm learning this technique and I'm learning this technique, and they.
Um, most of them had like done their original training with the Brawl Institute, but they weren't teaching, like listening or ways to like find out where to start. So I just felt like I had like a million techniques of different things and based on what like a patient complaint would be, I would be like, well, we could do this or we could do that.
So I was. Also kind of like where to go. Mm-hmm. And in pelvic health I work with like a very varied population. I see women and I see men, and I see like sometimes trans people. Mm-hmm. And um, people of all ages as well. So it could be like. Quite variable who I'm seeing. And sometimes with people with pelvic pain, it's like very complex and they've had symptoms for a long time and they have like 17 things going on.
So in those cases also it would be like, where do we start? So much like, oh my
Anna Hartman: gosh.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Yeah. So kind of in my like. More journey into being interested in visceral and studying that and being interested in nerve nerve stuff as well. Personally, having experience with that. Um, it just was like a nice blend of the two areas that I wanted to be able to like, have a better idea about how to help people with.
Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, and it's been fun to see sometimes like things change more quickly when I use that assessment.
Anna Hartman: Yes. And so, I mean, that's one of the things too, and you know, it's nice that you're here. And I think too, even Nikki in the dance world, you get some complex people because of like, mm-hmm. A lot of times people with hypermobility syndromes have a lot of complex pain problems, so you kind of both work in that setting and.
I th I mean, the complex patient is so challenging because they do have such a robust medical history, uh, or pain history, or like even just like clinical history with other practitioners. And so they've been told all these things about their body and all these things that are like maybe wrong with their body or how their pain's connected, or how their pain is, like part of their stress or like, I mean, I'm sure it runs the gamut of what they're told and so.
I, I do believe, I mean, from people like you who've been taking the work and working with people like I do believe this is a really great tool to have in those complex cases to keep you sort of unbiased about all of those stories and even to let them sort of like let go of all those stories and realize that.
That's probably not true. A lot of them are probably not true and so yeah. Are like, are you seeing results with those complex cases being a little bit easier to navigate or is it still sort of I.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: It feels like layers of the onion. Mm-hmm. Like I feel like I'm on the right track if like different stuff is showing up from time to time.
Yeah. Like session to session. Like if I find something and then we do an A treatment and we make a change like in that session.
Yeah.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Then in a subsequent session, if I'm like. Drawn to a different part of the body or directed based on like the ltap. Um, like then I'm like, oh, that thing is more, not so much of the problem at this point.
Yeah. Now there's like another layer that like needs to be addressed. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: I like that. And along with those layers, and you've seen like a change clinically in, in whatever you're measuring, the objective measures or the tissue quality or whatever, are you finding that their symptoms are sort of being like that too?
It's like maybe like one symptom at a time or a couple symptoms at a time or resolving, and now they have a little less to focus on. Mm-hmm.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Yeah. So they're not like, or like they're like, oh, this was bothering me so much, but now I'm realizing that like that's mellowed out, that I just have this like other thing going on.
Yeah, that's like maybe not as like much like pain or other symptom, but they're like, oh, that area's like tight or something like that.
Anna Hartman: Right. And I'm assuming too, sometimes with patients like that, especially when you're starting to get results for them, and they've probably never been with a practitioner to get them very good results.
They're like, oh, well now that you've taken care of this, this, this, and this, can we work on
Taflyn Wilschinsky: that too? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because they're, 'cause especially being in pelvic health, people are like, oh, you just work on my pelvis. Right. Or like, I don't know if I can tell you about like my neck pain or my shoulder pain or my, you know, whatever else is going on or that old ankle injury.
And I'm like, it's all connected potentially.
Anna Hartman: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. How about you, Nikki, with the,
Nikki Bybee: with the
Anna Hartman: type
Nikki Bybee: of clientele you
Anna Hartman: see?
Nikki Bybee: Yeah, I mean, just speaking to what she ended with, like it is all connected and I love, you know, how you emphasize, you know, we came from. A single thing and we still are a single thing.
We're not parts.
Yeah.
Nikki Bybee: And sometimes I think my clients especially think of themselves in parts. I don't know if your athletes do that, but my dancers definitely think it in parts of themselves. Mm-hmm. And so, um, sometimes it's a little bit like, well, my ankle hurts, and they want you to go right to your ankle or Right to their ankle.
Mm-hmm.
Nikki Bybee: So I, um, you know, I, I just say, well, let me do some assessments and let's see, you know, where we go. But I do feel like I get results pretty quickly.
Yeah.
Nikki Bybee: Know it might not be instant release of their ankle tension that they're feeling, but as we unpeel the layers mm-hmm. We started getting more and more movement.
That's clear to them and it's clear to me, and it's fun because they. I have, I have students that I teach and sometimes I give material in classrooms. Not assessments, but just some of the neural stuff. And they, they, they call me the magician 'cause they don't understand how it works and they're so used to just going hard, hard, hard.
You know, they think they have to train until. They're, you know, bleeding. And so some of it's just, you know, a completely different approach, more parasympathetic and you know, they get movement and then they wonder like, why I was trying to do the splits for years and you just gave me a pencil pushup and now I'm doing the splits.
And it makes no sense to them, but it's really fun to be able to see. You know, the changes in the body and, and with the assessment and individuals like, yes, for sure. I feel like I can make progress really quickly and it's not always exactly like, um, I. I'm still working on my skills, but it, I feel like it is always progress.
Anna Hartman: Yes.
Nikki Bybee: And it's always unraveling and that's really fun to see.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, that is good. You know, and I think you kind of said it, you know how your population is like they think in parts. I think it's a little bit of the nature of the beast sometimes with athletes and people who have. Complex cases and, and, and a lot of chronic pain sometimes too.
So all of, like, all three of us have this tendency to have these patients that I always tell them are kind of like floating heads. Like they're very like thinkers and they're very like, very good at pushing past, paying attention to what they feel. Because a lot of times what they feel, they don't like it and they have to ignore it in order to progress, in order to like.
Heal in a, in a way. And so it's like it is a retraining of them to like realize that they can have, they can feel safe in their body and that also feeling safe in their body is often the path to feeling better and. That all the things that they're feeling is not bad. Like it's not bad or it's not like it's neither bad or good, it just is.
And, and when they can start feeling again, they get that body autonomy back and it is just like such a powerful. Thing because again, I mean, they've been told so many stories about their body, like athletes too. They've been told so many stories about how their body moves over the year, that it's over the years, that it's just like they don't know what to believe, who to believe anymore.
And yes, because we get results sometimes with really simple things. It feels like magic to them because they're used to having to. Almost like disassociate and go into more pain in order to feel better or in order to function.
Mm-hmm.
Anna Hartman: So it's super interesting that crossover. I.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I, I mean, I like don't force the body makes so much sense, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Nikki Bybee: Um, when you're in fear, like old school ballet instructors in Russia would just push their kids down into the splits and you still see those videos floating around. Absolutely. Sometimes. And when I'm watching 'em, I was like, Ugh. You know, because you know how that is to have someone pushing you past.
What you feel safe doing. Mm-hmm. And then realizing what we know about the nervous system, that that person's likely pulling away from the movement as they're being pressed into it. Like yeah. How is that going to benefit them long term? And like, is there a better way? Yeah. There is a better way. There's a lot better way.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. I love that. Um, what's one of the things, or, I mean obviously, so it sounds like both of you like came seeking answers of where to start and mm-hmm. It did just that gave you a framework to figure out where to start. And it sounds like knowing that is working, at least starting to work for your patients, which is great.
So besides getting the info, getting that, which is. Like, awesome. Um, is there anything else about the courses, either the online or the in-person courses you guys have both done, both that you've either learned or like really loved about, like the learning style or like, you know, especially compared to other continuing education courses that you might have taken that sort of like stands out to you?
Nikki Bybee: I loved that. I got a, I, maybe this is disadvantage, you know, a disadvantage in some ways, but I loved that I gotta stay with the partner that I had from the very beginning of the course. It just gave me kind of a rapport and also, um, I started to understand her body, or I felt like I started to understand this body and instead of just going from body to body and, mm-hmm.
Um, having to figure it out again, which I, I didn't have her, I had my hands on other people, let me just say that. Yeah. But it was nice to feel like. I could see changes happening even from day one to day two when I realized, oh, she isn't like she was yesterday.
Yeah.
Nikki Bybee: To just have that experience and then have it validated.
When you said what you said in the course mm-hmm. I think you, you mentioned not wanting to retest and you had the idea, well, I just tested this yesterday, and then you went ahead and tested it and sure enough it's in a different place, which makes a ton of sense because, you know, how did we sleep? Did we stress out on the way to wherever we're getting to, you know, so the body of course is gonna be perhaps in a different place.
So I, yeah, I loved that. Mm-hmm. Um, I felt like I got a lot of hands-on experience, which was, you know, something I have left other courses and been thinking I wish I had had more time. Yeah, I did not, of course, more time is always, you know, appreciated, but I didn't feel. I didn't feel like there was a deficit.
I felt like I had plenty of time to get very comfortable and I walked in on Monday, like the next day I got up, went to work, and I did exactly what I had done all weekend and I felt comfortable. So it was great. I love
Anna Hartman: that. Yeah. That's awesome.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Yeah. Uh, I liked having a good amount of hands-on time as well.
Mm-hmm. I feel like that was, um, a lot of it was like kind of experiential, like, here's the concepts, now let's practice like the actual assessments and having help with like, the specificity from you and from the TAs that were in the class in terms of like where you're monitoring or like what you're looking at or where to put your hands, um, was helpful in that.
In the real time. And then I liked the combination of the in-person and the online, just 'cause the, I like having a little bit more time mm-hmm. To like integrate the information. Um, and I, I think that combination is helpful. Yeah. And also to like deep dive more on the anatomy. Um, that's the other part that I really, really like.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And it's like, we could do that in a course setting, but it takes away from then the practical time. And then also it's like, can be so heavy. It can just really like. Way down the energy of the classroom.
Mm-hmm. Because
Anna Hartman: it's like a, you know, a brain load. And so it's like the more you load your brain there, it's harder to like be present for the feeling.
And the feeling is like really? You know, the whole reason people come in person I feel like is Yeah. So you can get feedback from the teacher and like really see the nuance of it that you can't, you know, over video and you can't, you know, we do as best as we can over video, but at the same time, like it's, does have its limitations, so.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: I love that too. I, um. That was my biggest thing obviously in creating. It was like, you know, we're in this online world now, so it's like, why not use it to our advantage and make it so, yeah, we can just have a two day course of like completely hands-on. And then two, realizing that what, what I found really powerful through.
The Bral work especially, was by learning their techniques. I, I could understand the principles of osteopathic medicine a little bit better. And you know, that is a quote from Harrington, Emerson, um, who is this? Man in the past, I don't even know what decade, but he wrote a book about efficiency and that was his whole thing is like when you learn the techniques, you understand the principles, and then once you understand the principles, you can create your own techniques.
And I'm like, yes, that's how it should be. Because I don't want us all to be like carbon copies of each other. We mm-hmm. We all have such unique. Personal experiences. We have unique patient experiences, we have unique learning experiences. We're all bringing something different to the table. So why would I ever want you to practice exactly like me, right?
And so it's like just giving you the tools to experience all the underlying principles. One makes you your own practitioner, but then two, it allows you to sort of. Feel and understand those principles so deeply that if you wanted to abandon the LAP altogether, but still honor this lens of view, you see why it's valuable.
The, the lens of view of the whole organism and the nervous system and the visceral being like such big drivers of our protection patterns because they ultimately drive survival for the organism. And it's like, I think if I stood up and lectured at you and talked about that over and over again. It's just not as powerful.
It would take me weeks or months to convince you versus like two days in the course. Mm-hmm. To like show it to you with your own eyes and hands.
Yeah. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: Mm-hmm.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Um, just what I was gonna say is the, in my feedback in like the beta too that we just did was that I liked some of the ways that you were kind of like, you could do this, like this, or you could do it like that.
Like having more like freedom to kind of experiment with like how you're implementing some of the tools. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. I love that way to plug the Ltap level too. Well,
Taflyn Wilschinsky: I'm just such a like rule biter. I'm like, they said it has to be like this. This is how you do it. Yeah. So every time someone gives me license to like do something slightly different, I'm like, oh, I didn't realize I could like, yeah.
Play around with it. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: Well, and this too goes back to like really understanding the purpose of everything, and this is. Oftentimes, you know, especially in classes, you'll, you, you guys have both heard it. People are be like, how do I do it in this type of patient? What do I do for this type of patient? Or if this person can't lay down, what do I do?
If this person can't stand up, what do I do? And I'm like, what all goes back to like, do you really understand what we're trying to get out of this assessment? If you understand what we're trying to get out of it, then you can. Figure it out how you would then modify it for the person in front of you.
Yeah. And that has been something I've believed my whole career of like even exercise prescription, if you know exact, like every single I, like, I've been a big believer my whole career and it was probably from my original mentors, but it was like every time you give something to someone, be very intentional with it.
Like have a reason and, and it's better to have. It is better for the reason to be wrong than to not have a reason at all. Right, right. If the reason's wrong, that's fine. We, we learn that it's wrong and now we have a new reason. But at least we we're inserting like something for having the intent behind it.
So it's like every exercise program, every manual therapy piece, every even assessment piece I do like, has a very specific intention behind it that I'm trying to achieve. And by knowing that allows me the flexibility lin that you just said is like, I can, I can do it a lot of different ways. Because I know the underlying principle.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah. I love that. Um, I wish I could remember exactly what happened yesterday in the studio when I was working with someone, but something happened. You black it on it, it
Anna Hartman: it was so cool. You blacked out. It happens.
Nikki Bybee: I blacked it out. But I, uh, something happened and I was, my immediate thought was, how do I make her body feel safer?
Yeah,
Nikki Bybee: and that was like such a great moment and I was like, oh, see, here I am. I'm like right in the middle of a session, something isn't going well. And my first thought is like, how do I make this body feel safer? I love that. And so I adjusted and then I got what I needed out of whatever was going on. I don't even remember.
I wish I could. Yeah. But it was great because I was like, just that line of thinking of instead of like. Just keep doing this pronation drill until your arch drops, you know, like that. There's another solution and it is just like, look for a way for the body to feel safer so it can release.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. Love
Nikki Bybee: that.
Anna Hartman: And yeah, we do see that in the class. Like that is like, that's my favorite part of demoing the scoliosis padding. Mm-hmm. Is like, yes, we're using the scoliosis padding for the reason so we can make the assessment fit that patient population. But within that, we get this added education of still whole organism lens of view of like meeting the body where it's at and Yeah.
And reading the person's body language and making sure that you have. Consent and they feel safe the whole time. Yeah. Regardless of the words that come out of their mouth.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Yeah. Yeah. I have at least like three people at like that I can think of with different like pelvic pain things. Mm-hmm. I like forgot a couple times and I was like, oh yeah, we can't do this.
They are so hypersensitive on the front of their like abdomen and I mm-hmm. The SI joint tests. Like, I was like, oh, I can't actually put my hands here and push down.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: They're just like reacting, guarding, like ticklish, whatever it is. Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah, we have to go standing up now.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. We have a different way.
Yeah. I
Taflyn Wilschinsky: can't touch you here or push. Mm-hmm. Pressure in this area without it like causing a big reaction.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, I love that. And it like, and yeah, it kinda like you said with the level too, like having other ways to do it. Like, and sometimes when it's in the moment, sometimes we're like, oh my God, I don't know another way.
So it's nice. It is. I do know that it's nice when I point people. Oh, you could do it this way instead. Um, but yeah, it's like, again, you're just looking for the SI joint. You're just looking can the ate move independently? Mm-hmm. From the sacrum. And so it's like, test it. If you can't test it in supine, test it in standing.
If you can't stand, do it in standing. Like pick another way. Some. One of the practitioners in the Denver course this weekend, she is like, I've always done it and seated with the, like the seated bilateral test and I was like. Great. And she's like, and I've tested it with a breath hold and it gives me the same information.
I was like, great. And she's like, can I do it? I'm like, why are you asking permission? Yes, I'm doing the exact same thing I'm telling you. So like run with it. I loved that. So yeah,
Nikki Bybee: I also like just the idea that the body isn't wrong. You know how accepting I had someone lay down on the table today who is totally bent to the side and I.
In the past, I would've asked them to straighten out or bring your feet this way. And I just looked and I observed. And then I was like, are you comfortable? And she said, yes. And I was like, okay,
Anna Hartman: well, and then now you see that, you know, you see that side bending and you're like, Ooh, you probably have a central nervous system dbo.
She
Nikki Bybee: and she did.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. You, you're laying right in it.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah, we worked on it and she felt better. And, you know, I like the first thing I noticed when she walked in was her foot was very tilted. Today when she came in and averted, I guess I could say. Yeah. But, um, still did work. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I just like observed it and then laid her down and she was side bent and I was like, okay, well, you know, she's comfortable here.
And then we worked a little and she stood up and she goes, well, I feel a lot better. I'm like, yeah, great. You know, she's, we did a couple nervous system things and she's like, oh, what did we do? We just let your body be.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, I love that. Well, and too, this conversation kinda reminded me too, the journey we go on in class and like this realization of like.
Yeah. When you really have the intention and know exactly what you're trying to get out of the test, there's, the body's not wrong. You're not wrong. It's just more information. And so it's like, what are you gonna do with it? And so we talked about this tendency of practitioners at first when they're, when they're working through feeling this and seeing it.
If they don't get a information that they think they should, they, their first thing is like, oh, I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, right. Like everybody goes through that and I'm like, no, like that's that. That's not true. Like could it be like that you just didn't set the test up for success?
Or could it be that the test is not a good test for the patient because of. You know, like TLU patient, they're very sensitive to the front of the pelvis. They don't want you touching it. Of course, that's gonna increase the threat and totally change the scenario. Totally going to limit their mobility because their body's like, don't touch me.
Right. So it's like instead of jumping to the conclusion of like, I'm dumb, I can't do this, like, you know, which is our default at first, it's like, no, realizing that nothing's wrong, there's not wrong or right. It is just what is. Yeah. And when we can appreciate what is, then we're calmer about it. And then we can critically think of the steps.
Like, is it me? Like, could I make this better for myself? Is it appropriate for the patient? Like, is there another way I could do it to get the same information I need? And like when we work through it that way, then like. We're in such a better spot, right? Like, yeah, we don't get flustered. We, you know, we accept that like the body is just always just giving us information and like it's up to us whether we let our ego get in the way of that info or not.
Right? And
Taflyn Wilschinsky: as a practitioner then, I mean, it does happen, but in that Oh yeah. Scenario that you just described, it's like I'm going into like freeze mode. Yeah. Or fight mode, and I can't feel anything and I can't reason through it. Exactly. So versus like, oh, let's just take a beat. Yeah, yeah. And like figure it out.
Anna Hartman: And that's, I mean, and that's the two thing too. Like I was in this messaging like, um. Business class about messaging, which is like, basically the messaging is like how you resonate with your prospective client, right? It's like me talking about like, hey, like is it the three outta 10 people that leave you, you know, uh, awake at night?
Like that really is bothering you and you keep learning more tools and it doesn't help. Like that's messaging is like saying, you know, saying the right words to get you to like come into my. Sphere to listen to me basically. And so, um, I'm like, oh my God, where was I going with this? Please say what you just said.
They were
Taflyn Wilschinsky: talking about like going into like a freeze or Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. As a practitioner, like, what do I do? Oh my God, I can't figure it out. Yeah, exactly.
Anna Hartman: So it's like, it, it's like understanding. I think what I was trying to say is like understanding that. Oh, I know. Now I, now I'm back. Okay. The messaging thing, why I thought of that is because ultimately the, the soft skill, like the, the underlying soft skills that we're really getting out of learning these principles and like.
And practicing in this, in this way is confidence and calmness, which is like, like yes, a well-regulated nervous system and confidence for our patients. So we, so we recognize, because we recognize how important that is to be the calm, confident practitioner. So the reason I brought out the messaging class is he was trying to get us to.
Making like, um, you know, like a future paced hero as he calls it. So going from like the stressed out, frustrated, burnout, stagnant practitioner, you're on this journey to be the calm, confident practitioner. Right. But, and as corny as that sounds like that's what it is. Mm-hmm. That's what it is because the calm, confident practitioner knows that it's always figureoutable.
That there's no reason to, to worry. There's no reason to like, feel like you don't know what you're doing. There's no reason to like panic because the body always has the answer. If you just are calm and confident enough to like not go into that shame spiral when you get a message from the body that doesn't make sense to you.
Mm-hmm. And
Anna Hartman: to like, this was me. This, you know, you, you probably have all heard me tell the story of when my teacher Ron Mariotti. Told me, you know, when my hand was on the body, I don't have permission to think like if my hand's on the body, I only have permission to feel. And when I want to think, he's like, take your hands off the body.
And so you'll see me do that with my, my patients. I'll have my hand on them and I'll be working on them and all of a sudden it's like. I said this this weekend in Denver. I was like, it's like the show, the chef show on tv. Chopped. It's like chefs like knife down, time's up, and my hand comes off of them.
And when my hand comes off of people quick like that, that's me catching myself overthinking, starting that little like. Not necessarily the shame spiral, but starting that like I'm forcing things. I can feel my nervous system changing. I am like not being so balanced in my autonomic nervous system. And I like definitely always practice.
Take my hand, take put like, you know. Knives down. Yeah. Like knives down. We gotta like recollect, we're like slipping out of that calm, confident practitioner and like, what do I need to do to get back there? And so, yeah. Yeah, that's what I love that you guy, you know, that you all are recognizing too, is like that that's the journey.
And, and that, that's the tough thing too, is like, I know in my heart that that's truly the journey I'm taking you all on is, is this journey towards this calm, confident practitioner. That appreciates the whole organism, but the only way you get common confident is understanding the organism, right? Mm-hmm.
And but it, you can't sell it that way. Like nobody, nobody buys that. It's like nobody buys confidence. They buy a skinny body when, you know, I'm still like fat loss and fitness. Yeah.
Nikki Bybee: I love that because I, I mean, even today with the woman that was laying side bent, when I saw her lay down, I immediately wanted to validate my theory, which was she was in a CNS.
And I put my hands behind her, you know, head to check her, um mm-hmm. Behind her ears. And as soon as I did it, I realized I was already ahead of myself.
Yes.
Nikki Bybee: Like, I'm ahead of myself and I need to take my hands off of her.
Yeah. I love that because
Nikki Bybee: I am trying to validate what my theory is and I need to just listen to see what is really going on.
Yeah. And so I had to start over as I go. Hey. You know, hang on. Yeah, hang on. Start at the beginning. Yeah. Start again and then, yeah, sure enough, I did feel it, but I, I didn't want to make myself, you know, like believe the theory I'd come up with. 'cause I knew I'd be messing up my assessment if I didn't just listen.
And so I was like, I have to still validate it. Like I can't just lean into my theory.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. I catch myself all the time. Still to this day, it is a daily practice for me to let not let my ego drive the bus. Yeah. My patient care and with my teaching and like with everything. So yeah. I love that you caught that.
Yeah. Um. I know we're running over the time I promised you ladies, and so I want to, my last question I've been asking everybody is sort of like, you know, if, if there's a person on the fence about taking the online course or the in-person course or both, like what would you tell them beyond just like the.
Everybody loves to be like, well, Anna's the best. And it's like the best class, which I appreciate. With that assumption, we already know that. Like what are other reasons? Like what, what would be what you tell them, like to get them off the fence?
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Uh, I would say that it's like, it's a practical, like hands-on assessment.
That's like an algorithm. Not exactly, but it's simple enough to learn.
Mm-hmm.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Um, and I think it can help apply like any other strategies or techniques or tools that you already have.
Yeah.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: So, um, yeah, I think that just like being able to be like, there's just five steps.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: And I don't even need to do all of them necessarily.
You don't even need to do all of them.
Nikki Bybee: Yeah, I would say, uh, there will be value no matter, you know, like maybe you don't feel great in your, um, assessment skills on just a two day weekend. But I did both the online and the two day weekend and I really liked that. I had information before I went in. Um, I think I got a little bit scared when I saw how much hands on and I, I was like, oh, I don't know if I can.
Do this or that. But then when I realized, oh, I can just side bend them, that's easy. I can just put my fingers here. That's easy. Then I realized, oh, this is really a beneficial, and I can, I feel, you know, confident in doing what is within my scope. Mm-hmm. Um, I feel very confident about that and I definitely feel like it's valuable and very.
Um, it was very much worth my time. I'm so glad I went to Denver. Um, it was great to be able to have like personal coaching from you both as a subject and then turn around and have my hands on you and have you give me feedback. Mm-hmm. So that was a really beneficial experience because the classroom size was such that it allowed that to happen and I was like, oh, this is so good.
I'm so glad I'm here. So. Thank you.
Anna Hartman: I'm glad. Yeah. That is all intentional. I hate the huge 60 people classes. Like it's just too much. So.
Mm-hmm.
Anna Hartman: I keep it small for that reason and because also at the end of the day, like creating community is what I am, you know, relationships is what drives me more than anything.
And so I'm like, yeah, it's hard to create relationship with 60 people. Even the 24 people is tough, right? Like, so that's kind of like the the max. So I appreciate that you enjoyed that aspect and. Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you both. If there, I mean, if there's any parting words you need to say, like, now's the time, but I feel like we covered a lot, which I really appreciate.
Taflyn Wilschinsky: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's, I, like I said, I like the fact that it's practical and applicable, like it's not that complicated, but there's still lots of opportunity to deepen your mm-hmm. Like abilities and ways that you can use it. Mm-hmm. So, yeah.
Anna Hartman: Love that. Yeah. All righty. Well thank you for being here today.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.