Why Your Best Techniques Sometimes Don’t Stick
Why does the body hold on, even after great treatment?
In this episode of the Unreal Results podcast, I sit down with Dr. Satya Sardonicus for a wide-ranging conversation about nervous system regulation, fascia, and the body’s innate intelligence. We unpack why many clients stay stuck in survival mode, how dural and fascial tension influence the central nervous system, and why true healing requires more than just the right technique.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
How the autonomic nervous system shapes pain, movement, and perception
Why overtreating tissues can reinforce protective patterns
What “capacity” means in treatment—and how to recognize it in real time
How clinicians can reduce burnout by shifting their role in the healing process
This episode is less about fixing and more about creating the conditions that allow the body to reorganize itself. If you’re a clinician who senses there’s more happening beneath the surface of pain and movement patterns, this conversation will help you see regulation, resilience, and recovery through a more integrated lens.
Resources & Links Mentioned In This Episode:
Get Dr. Sardonicus' FREE NeuroFascial Flow Method Foundational Paradigm here!
Sign up for Dr. Sardonicus' webinar: From Fixating To Facilitating: Reorienting clinical care around capacity, coherence, and integration
Connect with Dr. Sardonicus on Instagram
Check out everything Dr. Sardonicus has to offer on her website
Learn the LTAP® In-Person in one of my upcoming courses
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Anna Hartman: Hey there and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs in the nervous system on movement, pain and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.
Hello. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Unreal Results Podcast. Today is a special episode. I have a guest for you. Uh, a new friend that I, uh, met, sort of met at the Fascia Research Congress, um, this past summer in New Orleans. Uh, Dr. Satya Sardonicus, uh, she's a chiropractor, uh, lives in the Northeast.
And, uh, I went to her talk at the Fascial Research Congress, and it was about, um, the dorsal fascial kinetic chain. Uh, no, not dorsal, dural. Why did I say dorsal? I think d in dorsal, but dural, fascial kinetic chain, which is a term that she's coined, uh, in looking at the body, kind of like as a whole map of really the nervous system and our resilience and capacity to like what's going on. And it really resonated with me because one, we're seeing the whole body as a whole organism. Two, she's talking about the dura and the central nervous system and their extension into the periphery, which I talk about a lot.
And then also, um, just the way she spoke about the body, I could tell that she was aligned with the same principles, uh, that I was. Specifically, you know how the fascia, the muscles, they're the bodyguard. They're their bodyguard. They are designed to protect the body, and when they're tight and when they're immobile or have pain, it's often just on purpose.
Uh, and the body adapting, um, because it's way smarter than we will ever be. And so, um, it was refreshing to hear someone else speaking in the same way, even though we were coming from it from two different perspectives, sort of. Um, and yeah, and I just, we, we talked last week briefly as we're getting to know each other and, um, I just felt like I really wanted to share her with all of my podcast listeners and my whole community.
So, uh, welcome. Thank you for being here.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Thank you so much. Yeah. It's been such a delight to me. To, um. A sister in the, uh, in the world of, of healing, which, like you said, like being so aligned in our basic philosophy of the body's ability to heal itself. Mm-hmm. And finding the ways where, um, we can honor the protective function and help it move forward through different lenses and different techniques.
But still having that same like starting place makes all the difference in the world. So I'm, I'm so delighted we're connected in, in getting to have this conversation publicly to share with other people too. 'cause, you know, to be a fly on the wall in a lot of these conversations, it's um mm-hmm. It's so much fun to, to unravel these things.
Mm-hmm.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And it was interesting too because your talk, I mean, I think it was one of those slots that was like a 20 minute talk and I'm like, how do they even schedule 20 minute talk? Like you can't talk about anything in 20 minutes, you know, let alone a completely different paradigm of thinking. And I was like, it was funny.
But, um, I came back from the fascial research Congress and I always wanna share with people like what I learned. And I still was thinking last night, I was like, man, I promised the listeners a like recap on everything. And I was like, I still haven't done it, but I'm like, it's overwhelming, better everybody that I love to learn from.
I just need to bring 'em on podcast and give you an actual like, more space to share anyways. Because like even all I got out of that, well not all, I got out of it a lot, but like the biggest thing I got out of it was, okay, this woman, she, I need to go become friends with that person. Yeah. Like this person, like we are speaking the same language, we need to talk.
And um, yeah. And, and it was like I never found a time during the meeting to actually grab you and say hello in person because. You know, a lot of people were trying to do that. And then you had your cute little dogs with you too, and so everybody was either wanting to talk to you or wanting to talk to the dogs.
And I was like, okay, well that's, I'll send her an email. Yeah, I know. I'm like super introverted and especially at things like that, so I'm like, I don't wanna text. Like, I, I don't, I'm not gonna introduce myself to somebody. I don't know. Are you kidding me?
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: That's so funny. I also, like, I do much better with one-on-one myself as well.
Yeah. It's so overwhelming when you're at a conference and it's really cool. Um. But it was like a fire hose. And I think everybody I talked to there felt the same, that trying to cram so much, there were so many glimmers of like incredible things people were sharing. Yeah. That again, I, I wanted to dive more deeply on.
So, um, yeah, how fun that we get to, to explore this a little bit, a little bit more today. Yeah,
Anna Hartman: I love that. And I would love for you to like, share a little bit about your background. Obviously I said you're a chiropractor, but I think one of the, obviously you've had a lot of things happen in your own body that has really been your guiding teacher, but then even like growing up in the family, your family, the way you did, like what a unique perspective, like I'm new to these osteopathic principles within the last 13 years and like you literally grew up in them.
And so I just think that is such an interesting perspective.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. Yeah. I can, for the listeners, I can give context to that, that, um, yeah, I mean. I have a degree. I have my doctorate in chiropractic. I also have a degree in psycho neuroimmunology. So looking at how mental and emotional health Oh wow. Mm-hmm.
Translate into physical, like why we get sick when we're stressed, and why we've seen prayer cure cancer. So I, I studied that formally as well. Um, and then I did my postdoc in perinatal and pediatric care and I focused a lot on sensory processing and integration and working mostly with kids on the spectrum.
Um, and it was interesting because I also yes, have this confluence of the family I was raised in where. And there are six chiropractors in the generation before me, and they each have their own unique, like one of them was a Rolfer before he was a chiropractor. Another one was, um, like my mom is a craniosacral therapist and she went actually partway through chiropractic school and then was like, well, I'm pregnant with child number five.
I think I'm doing enough. But she has a background in yoga and dance and brought that piece into it. My dad has a background in engineering and a degree in physics that like it. All of these things really confluence together to say, you know, I was raised in this family full of holistic healthcare providers who taught me from a young age that the body is self-healing, is self-regulating.
And, and like you said, I was immersed in that to the point where most people who are in this perspective as adults had some experience that changed their, their belief system made them go, oh, actually. The body is self-healing, but for me, it, it's not even just a belief, it's a knowing. I, I've watched people be carried into my dad's office and walk out.
I've watched him, you know, stop an asthma attack in its tracks at 2:00 AM with a little girl. The hospital gave up on him. My dad adjusted her, and the asthma attack stopped. Like, that was just my normal life Yeah. For me as a kid. And so, um, you know, as you mentioned, I've had a lot of really crazy health challenges in this life as well.
I, I was in a severe car accident when I was seven that we, I ended up with three herniated discs in my neck and one of my low back mm-hmm. At seven years old. And I had great care because of my parents and chiropractic and cranial psychotherapy. Um, but it wasn't until almost 20 years later that they realized I also had a life-changing brain injury that day as well.
That my brain got herniated out of my skull. Mm-hmm. Uh, and. It's because of the family I was raised in that, and then also the, the specialty I chose of sensory processing and integration, you know, that, that really confluenced with being able to say, okay, I don't actually want the different kinds of surgery that are being option, you know, options to me presented at this point.
And instead I, I don't just believe I know my body can heal. I gotta figure out why is it not right? And, and that has directed me through multiple health crises, including chronic Lyme that I don't have anymore and that I did have, which is unusual to be able to say. And, uh, what was anticipated to be a, um, very short life expectancy five years ago when I had two quickly growing tumors.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: And I've come through all of that knowing how do I get the body to heal itself, not how do I micromanage that process? And that's, you know, that's the heart behind everything.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And I think, um, I mean, I think that's amazing. I, I, I listened to years ago when I kind of, first, this is actually before I was even introduced to osteopathic stuff, um, I was, um, going through the Polestar Pilates curriculum and one of their, well they did this seminar.
It was like the, oh, like something life conference. It was basically like this, this international conference and they brought different people in and they had brought like, um, James Oshman in to speak about energy medicine. And I had already read some of this stuff. 'cause some, one of my mentors was like big into that, uh, in.
Who was a straight coach, but he was just really interested in like quantum physics stuff. And so he would share. And so I listened to him and then Carol Davis spoke at that too. It was the first time I heard Carol talk. And um, one of the things she said, she was talking about cancer and, you know, fascia and energy medicine and how it relates.
And I remember something that she said that was so interesting or so profound, and she was like, you know, when she was working in the hospital, the people who like you, who had terminal, you know, me, medicine tumors, right. That were like not supposed to survive like miraculously, quote unquote miraculously.
Like, which it is a miracle. Like I'm not going to deny that. But also we are like, our bodies are the miracle. Like, we're like the, the ability to self heal is miraculous and it's, we forget that. Yes, exactly. Like we're, we are innately the most intelligent like. It things in the world and so in the universe.
And so anyways, uh, but she was basically like people that, that was happening to, she was like, you know, the doctors and the researchers basically looked at them as like outliers and was like, okay, cool. Like, let me focus on this person with the disease that is not improving and like figure out how to stop it.
And like, instead of being like, ridiculous, we should study these people. Like we should study the person who like you has able to like get rid of their tumors through, through like not to necessarily using chemotherapy or even with it. Like, you know. And so it was so interesting. I was like, wow, she's right.
Like, why don't we study the people that have these miraculous,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: like well, and that goes along with the, the placebo effect, right? Right. That we have. All like the entire medical and scientific community agree that a certain percentage, a significant percentage of people will have a positive result from like sugar pill, like nothing.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: If they believe that it's going to work. Yeah, exactly. And so everybody agrees in the medical and scientific community that our belief directly influences physiology, but they all minimize it and go, oh, that's just placebo, and they push it to the side. I'm like, and it just reminds me of the same thing you're saying where it, and you say, well, why isn't it studied?
Well, because it doesn't fund the, yeah. Not get all like crazy into this realm, but like, because it doesn't fund the business of the pharmaceutical medical complex, there's money and which is tragic, but also I'm like,
Anna Hartman: yep, you're you. And that's
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: where research research is done, where there's funding. You know?
Anna Hartman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I get that, but I'm also like, oh my gosh. So frustrating. Yeah. This is, we can go on another tangent about this. But anyways, um, and it was, so, it also, it reminds me of the quote from at Steel about like, anyone can find the disease. It's the job of the practitioner to find the health. And that is just like, I'm like, oh, that is so true.
And it is something that like in traditional western medicine approach and a traditional like physical therapy, athletic training, we're so quick to label everything that the body does as a protective mechanism as being Wrong,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: wrong, broken, dysfunctional.
Anna Hartman: Exactly. And I'm like. We've got it, we've got it wrong.
Like that is actually like the intelligence of the body on purpose doing things and
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Well, that's the reframe, right? Yeah. That's the reframe we need is to say the body isn't broken, it's doing something adaptive, or there's something in the way that's interfering with the system coordinating itself.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, I mean, the biggest thing that, certainly not the only thing, but the biggest thing that I think is so overlooked and why you and I resonate so much, is to look at the autonomics, to look at the nervous systems state of being either in a state of protection, alarm survival mode, or in a state of healing and self-regulation.
And when people are living in that first mode, in that protective survival mode, it's. Results in a lot of things that we are calling sickness and dysfunction. Yeah. But you know, one piece is about the, the tissue in the body, especially the, the soft tissue, the fascia having a protective function goes into this like splinting mode.
Mm-hmm. And, and we see these restrictions, um, but it also distorts your psyche. It it, in order to survive a life-threatening tiger attack, it's important to switch off the neurological pathways. For compassion, for understanding another point of view. Mm-hmm. Because if you were busy being empathetic for the tiger, you wouldn't fight for your life.
Right. Right. It's important for survival to have more anxiety, depression, like to be more on edge, to be more hyper reactive in your sensory systems, to divert energy away from digestion and reproductive function and hormone balance, and instead divert my energy into just surviving this attack. Yes. And, and, and the problem is people are living in a state of survival mode when the system has no interest in receiving that healing massage or brain retraining or any other therapeutic rehab because it's like, no, I, I can't reorganize anything right now while I'm freaking out and just trying to hold everything together to survive and, and we're busy as providers oftentimes trying to.
Put our beautiful, awesome therapeutic techniques onto a locked system that has no interest in change. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. I mean, you nailed it there. And, and that is like what I see so often too. Like I get this question from my athletes a lot 'cause they see it a, a lot of different practitioners. Sometimes even when they're working with me, they're working with other people.
And you know, the things that I do are not that, even though I have like some, like, tools that are outside of the norm with my visceral manipulation and neural manipulation skills, for the most part, I choose fairly general treatments for people. I don't choose a lot of the real specific things. And so, you know, and I do things that like, are very similar to the people at their teams or where in, in the community, you know, I use cups and I use um, you know, like scraping tools, all these different tools that.
A lot of different practitioners use, but they get a completely different result. And so I get asked from an athletes a lot, they're like, well, why, why do you get such different results than these people when you're doing the same things? Like, you're doing the same treatments, but it doesn't work the same.
I'm like, well, that's a very loaded question. I was like, but also it's because I have appreciation for what, where your nervous system's at. And I meet you there. And by meeting you there, I immediately start to help you switch into that parasympathetic response. And, um, I meet you there in two ways. One, it's a little bit of understanding how to read someone's body in terms of like, can I tell if they're in a very guarded state?
Right? Like, what are the, what are like the, the tells of the body when they're stuck in a hypers sympathetic or like dorsal vagal state. And then also like how regulated I am when I'm there with them. To like help them because that's how we, how we, we heal with co-regulation. Exactly. Yeah. And then also, you know, through the, the locator test assessment protocol that I use, the ability or the general listening through osteopathic techniques is like figuring out, letting the body's wisdom guide me in where I need to start.
Because when I can start where the body is directing me, it's telling me exactly where I need to touch exactly where I need to go, that it needs help. That's part of that protective pattern. So by honoring that, and I call it like unlocking the sequence of where those treatments are need, like if I have three to five treatments that I did and I told that to their other practitioner, if they don't know the sequence, if they don't know how to listen to the body, they're not gonna get as good as results.
Especially when they have no understanding of the autonomic nervous system. Yeah. And how to regulate with someone. And so, um. I know, you know, like I would love for you to talk about your approach with your somatic tuning and your neuro fascial flow and, and just like how you kind of like approach that too, because like you said, yeah, I think the autonomics is like the piece, and part of that is like one being aware that there, it's a thing just like you said, like aware that safety matters and we're like stuck in the survival mode most of the time.
And then it's like how, like how do you go about with your clients or teaching the clinicians to work with their clients to like help that? Because I do feel like it's a, and one since it's a soft skill of like creating rapport in a safe environment, but also it's like there's some tangible ways that are actually make it a hard skill too.
So.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Oh, I love that you said that because like, one of my very favorite quotes is magic is just science. Not yet understood. Mm-hmm. And you know, we, I think we all as. Clinicians, providers have like either experienced some kind of magic that made us like probably wanna go into this career that we're doing.
Mm-hmm. And then also with our clients, but it's not always consistent. You're like, well why did this person have that kind of awesome response and this person didn't? And that's really what, you know, I've, I've sort of dedicated my, my life, my career to understanding more science so I can do magic more consistently.
Yes. And that's really what, what grew into the neuro fascial flow method, which is not necessarily, uh, about the techniques themselves. Although I certainly have adapted a lot of different kinds of fascia release to be more Mm. Like lower on the ramp of intensity because I realized we often don't need to do all of the work in the session.
And so I love how your work helps to direct in the session how to unravel the. The things that do physically need help unwinding, because that's very much a thing sometimes. Um, and to do it in a way that is in partnership with the system. Neuroaxial Flow, uh, has this framework where I'm trying to assign, uh, a tangible reproducible, not a protocol, but more of a choose your own adventure book.
You know, remember those from when we were kids? I don't think they exist anymore, but I loved those, which is tragic. I know. So good. Um, and, and really it's, I think of how, when. There. I'm gonna go on, I always go on lots of tangents, but these are so connected. Okay. So there's this book I read a long time ago called Dying to Be Me by Anita Mojo.
If you haven't read it, it's incredible just looking at the self-healing capacity of the system and, and your like inner landscape and spirit beliefs and
Anna Hartman: Oh, I love that. I'll have like
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: that in the show notes.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Oh my gosh, I love it so much. At one point I was buying it by the case and just giving it out to everyone I know.
I love it. Um, but there's one metaphor that she shared in there that has stuck with me and feels relevant here, which is that when white light refracts through Prism, it refracts into all the colors of the visible light spectrum. Mm-hmm. And is in a parallel when God, great mystery spirit, universal intelligence, whatever you wanna call it, refracts through a human, it refracts into the breadth and depth of our experience and, and all the different emotions and all of the different, um.
Ways that I uniquely see the world through this lens that I have. Mm-hmm. And so I don't think that I've invented something brand new here, but more that I am organizing and, and creating some coherence in some mm-hmm. Uh, the way that we create the container in which change happens. Mm-hmm. And so that's really neuro fascial flow is meant to give providers, it's sort of like a unified field theory, not just for healthcare providers, but for anybody who's trying to facilitate change mm-hmm.
In yourself or in someone else. So this is relevant for hands-on clinicians. It's relevant for therapists, it's relevant for mediators in court cases. Right. Like, if I'm trying to shift my belief or I'm trying to loosen a muscle, it doesn't matter. The, the sequence matters. And also stepping back from that a little bit, the container.
Matters as far as the system's capacity to integrate change. Yeah. And so we start, it is a five step process that really is fractal. So like it's within a single session on one spot, but it's also over months and years. Like, this is really relevant, but we need to start with establishing safety, not necessarily getting the system completely out of alarm, but at least downshifting the alarm enough to create a window of access to actually change.
Yeah. And then step two is to invite the system to change, to release its patterns on its own without me actively trying to change anything yet. But this often comes in the form of like queuing the nervous system, verbal invitations, and um, uh, using different visualizations can be helpful for this.
Mm-hmm. And then. Once the ball's rolling and the system softens what it can, then you introduce, this is where every other technique I've ever learned goes straight to this step three. That's where change happens. Mm-hmm. And, and it's not about, you know, saying that any of those methods or techniques are wrong.
It's that you plug them into this framework and it will make them more effective and easier for the provider too. Because what you do is, this is when you introduce whatever your therapy or technique is to change something. Because like I said, sometimes the system is truly like stuck and needs you to give it a nut, like give it some input to release.
But the thing you mentioned is we use a, a skill called somatic tuning that I teach to clients to be able to report for themselves and the provider. So both people are tracking it and this skill actually is being able to, um. Feel the physiological signs, the physical changes that happen when the nervous system starts to tip into alarm versus safety.
Mm-hmm. Because this is the metric that gets used to say how much a system can handle in a, in a single session. And handle isn't even quite the right word because I hear the, the term window of tolerance topped around, tossed around a lot. Mm-hmm. Especially in the nervous system world. Yeah. Um, and, and I really prefer window of capacity because I don't wanna be tolerating something.
Yeah. Because if I am, even if I have the pain tolerance or the whatever to, to do the thing, my nervous system is going to identify that change as unsafe, which is gonna make it snap back. And it's why you end up doing the same reps over and over the same therapy, over and over. And not saying that everything's gonna change in one single session, but this idea that, um.
If you push the system into a state of alarm, if it's at the expense of that alarm in the nervous system, I don't care if you loose into the fascia or the muscle or move the bone or whatever, or change the habit, you know, today. But if, if your system felt forced, not through like any fault of the provi, like I'm not saying it was intentional, right.
But if the system feels unsafe, then it's just gonna snap back. Yeah. And so we, we do that step three only to the capacity of the system to actually integrate. And then you don't leave it there. This is where you're actually gonna get changed, that lasts because you need step four reestablish safety.
Mm-hmm. And in neuro fascial flow, we use a lot of proprioceptive signaling, like using the deep pressure and movement signals that are the built in mechanism to come out of alarm. We use that for step one and four, like just to feed back to the brain on a global way. Hey, you're safe even because all change is hard, right?
Even in the right direction. And so we wanna reestablish safety and then really crucially important, we want step five is integrate and adapt to that set point. So you do something to help the brain make a new map of self, because otherwise it's gonna go back to its automatic neuromotor pathways that it already has like pre-programmed to make life efficient, right?
Right. The first time you're riding a bike, you feel wobbly. You have to think about the whole thing, but after a while you don't have to think about it because there's pre-programmed pathways. Right. But if I just go to like lift up my kid right away after I got adjusted or had a massage or whatever, then my brain's gonna go, oh, I know how to do this challenging activity from my place of lockdown and it wants to revert.
Yeah. And so we go through this process, concentrically bigger and deeper, and that over time. If you do it in this way where you're not trying to actually make the entire change in the session, you're just saying, how do I shift the system from alarm to safety so that it will actually continue to unwind between sessions, which is really different than what all of us are taught in school when we learn these different step three techniques.
Mm-hmm. For change is that we have this, I think, outdated. Um, and I, I think honestly inappropriate and exhausting for the provider idea that it's my job to fix my client in the session that it's my job to release the thing or change the pattern or, or, or any of the above when really. I only, I only need to shift the system from alarm to safety to encourage coherence in the system and then just get the ball rolling and bring the brain's attention and see what unravels.
Because otherwise, you know, like teaching someone to fish, I'm gonna give them fish so they don't starve while they're learning. Yeah. But if I only ever give them fish and don't teach them, they're never gonna hold those changes on their own. No. And that's exhausting for us.
Anna Hartman: We don't wanna That's
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: exhausting.
Yeah. It's, and it's a lot of work on the provider's part. And it can be really honestly, um, like undermining your clinical confidence when people don't change, don't have their pain, go away, don't heal. And I'm like, okay, well let's reframe what is the point of my care? And that's, that's something that. I really had to reflect deeply on, I guess I didn't have to, I did reflect deeply on when I first got into clinical practice.
I was like, you know, in school I was taught to, in chiropractic school, I was taught how to cell adjustments that remove the, excuse me, that loosen the joints that are jammed up in the spine that are interfering with nerve signaling. Yeah. And I'm like, cool, cool, cool, cool. Great service to provide, honestly, game changer for people that don't get adjusted.
Yeah. To make sure the brain body signaling is, is working without interference. However, I had a lot of muscle weakness and chronic illness at the time that I was like, I can't, no way is, can I ever earn the income I need to pay off these insane student loans, right? 'cause like, I can't do the traditional model of like, what's a successful business is like a high volume practice, right?
You see a bunch of people and I'm like, that's exhausting, but also what do I even want to, what am I doing here? Right? Because we go to school. Not because we wanted to just provide that service. Like most of the time you end up in healthcare because you feel deeply called, deeply purpose driven to help people transform their lives.
Mm-hmm. And so I know this is getting into a whole other thing, and I actually wanna loop back because there's a piece I haven't answered of your previous question yet. Okay. I like a tangent, but I think that my point here is that that five step framework is also applicable to how we facilitate change.
Like it's not about a single session, right? It's, it's the in-between. And it's also that when I, like if I teach my client somatic tuning and I'm like, Hey, you tell me when you feel the edge. Yeah. You know, I'm giving them more agency. And part of the process with neuro fascial flow is like, how do I teach people, how do I bring people to a stand for themself?
Yeah. How do I activate their own body's ability to heal itself, which means giving them more agency and, and more sovereignty in their healing process. And honoring, like we started off at the top of this call, the knowledge that the body is self-healing, is self-regulating. And if it's not healing, then why is it not healing?
And I'd rather focus on how do I get it back into self-healing, self-regulating mode instead of how do I, the provider fix all the stuff that is off kilter.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: And so the other piece that I'm gonna loop back to Yeah. Of, of neuroaxial flow is that inside that step three. Now that we've talked about the container, there's a major missing piece to looking at why the system gets locked in that state of alarm.
And we can talk all day about, you know, life is more stressful these days. There's a much stronger allostatic load of EMF and chemistry and like all, you know, emotional stress. Like, there's, there's a lot. It's true. And one of the first places to reactively go into protective mode in the, in the fascia, in the body is this central dural, fascial kinetic chain.
Is this, this central tension line that is, you know, the, the anatomical pieces are already very well defined and, and documented. Yeah. But. The DFKC, the dural, fascial kinetic chain is a structure that I, I named and actually presented some research. I think it was 2018 maybe with the Canadian Pain Society showing a dramatic reduction in headache frequency and intensity by working the lower parts of this line, like pulling stockings up from the bottom instead of the waistband.
Yeah, so feeding, feeding slack into the, the spinal cord and the dural sleeve around it by looking into the periphery, especially in the legs. But there's also intersections through the rib cage and the diaphragm. There's a, you know, I don't wanna get too technical in the anatomy of it right now, but the point is there are fascial lines that directly interface physically with the spinal cord, and, and so affect the CNS that way, the central nervous system, but also.
Physically affect the sympathetic chain ganglia in the ribcage when we're in a state of lockdown. Yep. And, and we'll perpetuate alarm signals to the brain 24 hours a day, even if you are meditating and eating clean and exercising and seeing your, you know, providers to do all the releasing of the things.
But if you're still in a state of alarm, it's this, actually, it's a positive feedback loop where the tension in the spinal cord and throughout this entire duro fascial kinetic chain will feed alarm signals to the brain perpetuating alarm mode, which then makes the brain say, we need to stay in protective mode.
And it will reactively splint, glue the ribcage down onto itself through the fascia to protect your vital organs and put a huge amount of tension in this DFKC, which is then going to shrink even more your capacity for stress, for change. Mm-hmm. And, and so. Uh, when I said at the, at the top of this part of our conversation, that I've developed some very specific fascia releases that have adapted from normal mobilization, from Rolfing, from, you know, receiving a lot of these very intelligent, very cool, like, intellectually cool techniques that exist, but they're doing too much.
They're trying too hard. You know, it's inducing a fight in the system and, and it doesn't actually need to be that hard. It's very rare. It's not never, but it's very rare that I need to be at the top of the ramp of that force input. Yeah. Um, and so especially when we couple with proprioceptive feedback to the brain, and something I, I'd really, really love about your work with Ltap is pulling from the osteopathic, listening to the specific.
Place like locally, looking at what is influencing this, this tension pattern. Um, and where neuro fascial flow plugs in, really cool with that is if we release start releasing, you don't have to have it a hundred percent start to release the DFKC, um, first or alongside the local places. Mm-hmm. Then it will make the system even more clear in what it tells you.
And because there's not the static of alarm. Yeah. And also we end up being able to be more impactful in our sessions mm-hmm. Because the system already unwound some of it, and so there's, you can like really get into it more specifically and go deeper faster with clients. Yeah. Um, and, and you're not doing as much work.
Right. Which, you know, it started because I just didn't have the physical capacity when I was really sick. But now it's, I mean, it's. Great to be able to end the day and not feel exhausted from seeing clients. You
Anna Hartman: know? 100%. That is like the crazy, I mean, especially for my athlete clients who are so used to being put through a lot of pain in order to feel better.
Like that's the biggest like paradigm shift for them is like they, they're like, I don't understand. You barely touched me.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Right. Because, because we're having a conversation with the system instead of forcing change.
Anna Hartman: Exactly. And so I'm, it, it it is, it is a really interesting like Yeah, you actually, and it makes sense 'cause we are sensory beings.
We are, feel like we are designed from the beginning. We have developed by feeling and by like sensing and we're very sensitive at sensing. And so it's like, it shouldn't actually surprise us that you barely have to like. Touch somebody to make such a impactful change, because that is always how we have changed in our body.
But yet it is, you know, the, the, the way society believes. You know, and this kind of, you even spoke to it too a little bit, but it's like, I always talk about people going on this, a clinicians going on this journey of letting go of their ego and they're, because they're fed in school that they're the expert on somebody else's body.
I'm gonna fix someone else's body. I know more. You're gonna fix their Exactly. And I'm like, let go. And also
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: what a, what a lot of responsibility to hold. Exactly.
Anna Hartman: I'm like, you wonder why you're confidence is low. I was like, because you think that you are the person doing the fixing. I was like, no, that is not, that's actually not your job.
That's the body. And,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: and, but if you're promising that, right. If, if that's the thing you're, you're selling promising, of course it's gonna fail sometimes and you're gonna feel horrible. Yeah. And it's like this reframe of, well, what am I. What am I actually doing? What am I actually doing here? Like, what is the thing I'm offering?
Yeah. And, and being able to find a, a framework that helps you deliver something you can feel integrity behind.
Anna Hartman: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Um, I mean, it just changes everything. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: And, and you're right. And when you, as the practitioner, when you're not working as hard, when you can kind of reframe that and realize like you can let go of your ego driving the practice because it isn't all about you, it's about the person in front of you.
It's about giving them their autonomy back and like having them stop outsourcing the trust in their body. 'cause the body, you know, and like when you don't have to work as hard and you're not as tired as the end of the day, then the next day you're coming to your patients even more regulated and gonna get better results.
And it's like just kind of steam rolls and it, it is definitely like. Uh, yeah, not, we live in such a masculine driven society. And I don't mean that as a masculine, like a masculine energy. Not a masculine,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: no. The, the, the go do push accomplish. Yeah. The do, do do. There's, there's usefulness in that. It's just imbalanced in our society.
100%.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And when applied to the body just is not, not, it ain't the way. So
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. Yeah. It is. There's two systems and I love what you said about the, the resilience of the provider and like your capacity to co-regulate. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. I mean, I know you said earlier and you were just starting to mention that a little bit, and I just wanna highlight that that's another place we agree so deeply that your own resilience and your own capacity matters so much for this process because it's not.
If, if it, if I'm not just trying to fix everything, part of the, the service that I offer is holding a container where they can actually fall apart and reorganize into their next iteration. But in order to do that, they have to feel safe. And in order to feel safe, I need to be regulated. And I, I remember when I first trained in reiki, which is a kind of energy healing for anyone that's unaware.
Um, my teacher taught me that to protect my energy and not like, take on people's stress. I, she suggested, I imagine this like white bubble around me. Right. And that does work. It actually helped me a lot. But as I've gotten older, I've realized that I can more powerfully help people when I dissolve the boundary between self and non-self.
Mm-hmm. Because they're going to experience other as dangerous. And if I can actually like have our. Nervous systems, our fields really connected. Then I can just be an extension of that person. Yeah, yeah. Um, and in order to do that and not have it, um, take over in my system, the, the fascia is actually a real key to this because the fascia being this system that there's so much overlap between actually like the fascial lines in the body and the Chinese medicine meridians of like where energy travels in the body mm-hmm.
That it's been proposed. Fascia might be the intersection of our, our physical and energetic bodies. And so when there is this, you know, I refer to it as neuro structural fluidity, like the capacity of every joint, all the fascia, all everything in the body to articulate with flow as opposed to just like a range of motion.
It's can you actually articulate when we have that full articulation capacity in the system, then not only will. Physical, like if I get hit on the side, um, that energy's dispersed across the system. Physics, right. Through a tene as a whole, the, the anatomy of the elasticity of the fascia disperses force and allows you to come back to center unharmed.
But from an energetic perspective, also like a spider web catches things when it's sticky. When our fascia is sticky, then it will catch the energy coming through. Yeah. But if I maintain my fluidity in the bo in my own body, then their energy can come up and out through me and out the, you know, out my feet or whatever and, and it doesn't, it disperses and it doesn't
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dis dissipates his heat.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I
Anna Hartman: actually think it's interesting that you say that too, because I'm like, yeah, I 100% agree. And you know, when you do think of the physics ness ness. Of it is like, yeah. So what does happen to energy? It's either stored or releases heat or dispersed Used.
Yeah. As kinetic energy. And so it's like, I think that sometimes too, like when you are a very grounded, regulated practitioner, people will describe you as having a warmth about you. Right. Or even with your touch, you know, I put my hands on my sister and she's like, oh my God, your hands are like hot. Like hot.
And I'm like, that is, I think that is parts of it, right? Is that I agree. Yeah. Like we have this flow that we are like allowing the energy to move through us and like, and it's not getting trapped.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. And, and that takes a lot of intention and, and I, you know, it's the same process I carry my, my clients through and, and actually at this point, um, I don't work one-on-one with clients anymore, but I do have an online self-healing membership mm-hmm.
Where I teach people to, to release a lot of this on their own and, um, what I teach them and then teach providers to, to do the rest because individuals can only do so much. Right. Uh, is really about restoring neuro structural fluidity is really getting the system back to a state of fluid adaptability structurally, because that will mirror into the neurological and energetic and emotional resilience.
Yeah. And so it's very much mirror
Anna Hartman: like. Also the more we learn about fas, it's the mirror. It's a part of our brain.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: It is our brain. Like it's an extension for sure. I mean, we're, we're continuing to see emerging research. I mean, fascist, the largest sensory organ in the body. It has six to 10 times the proprioceptive density of muscles.
But we're also looking at how it translates, uh, information piso electrically. Yes. Faster than the nerve signals. And it's also deeply innervated. So there's, like you said, we are sensory beings. Like my entire interface with reality is through my sensory inputs. Yeah. Through my, you know, I, I'm going to perceive the world through my body and when my body is locked down and my, it's gonna perpetuate alarm in the brain, which is gonna then make me see the world through a more, through a lens of things are probably dangerous.
Yeah. That people are probably trying to attack me. People are probably judging me. Right. That, that. Helpful for survival to be hyper, acutely, you know, in that filter. But when we're living in that state, especially when the body is holding tension patterns that are unresolved, even if it doesn't hurt, it's still creating that filter, that lens that you're experiencing the world through a, through a, um, a lens of everything is unsafe and it makes it really hard to, to connect relationally and it with others, with yourself, with, with spirit.
Mm-hmm. Um, as, as well as, you know, Maslow hierarchy of needs, talking about like self-actualization and, and your fullest expression of who you are. Maslow talked about like the, the base basic needs need to be met before you can try to be, you know, expressing your purpose. And he listed things like food and water and shelter and he was missing proprioceptive feedback.
Yeah. That when the body is holding any tension, the brain is just starving for that feedback. And it can't overarch
Anna Hartman: me like yeah, food and water. But like what he was really thinking and saying is like this, like safety, like food and, and water. It's about safety is a safety and so
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. It's a safety signal.
Yeah, exactly. And the built-in mechanism for safety is through proprioceptive feedback. And if we have any tension stored in the body, it's going to starve the brain of safety signals and send alarm signals instead. Yeah. I love it. And but you can't just rip it open. That's the thing is people are like, oh, well I need to go get somebody to stick their elbow in this tight spot and really loosen it.
And, and it's like, well maybe. Maybe, yeah, maybe
Anna Hartman: also. But
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: if it keeps snapping back, maybe the body doesn't feel safe enough to release it yet. Yeah. Uh, maybe there's a reason,
Anna Hartman: right? Like, and then it just goes back to like how quick people are to outsource their needs to other people. I don't like, or you could just move your body a little bit and like, touch your body with either your own hands or, or massage balls or like, like yeah.
Or just a floor rolling around on the floor. Like that is like nature's like foam roller. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Yes.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: And I, so interesting.
Anna Hartman: I wanna hold that,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: I wanna hold that one piece tenderly though.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Just to highlight a, a piece that I, I know that you agree with. Yeah. Which is.
Sometimes like this, this actually came up in our neuro fascial flow professional certification. We have, I have an interdisciplinary program that's, you know, we spend six months really getting into this, this lens of seeing professionally. But one of the, one of the participants in that program right now teaches yoga and she, um, she reflected that when she invites her class, Hey, drop into your body, feel your breath, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah. That, that actually was really triggering for some people who don't feel safe feeling in their body. Like one of the mechanisms that is in very intelligent and very appropriate is we will go into a dissociation like stepping out of. Because it doesn't feel safe to be in this body that isn't feeling dysfunctional or painful or whatever.
Yeah. And so oftentimes, like we say, oh, it's so simple. Like go move your body. Go. Yeah. And sometimes, and sometimes it takes some, a container to feel safe, even feeling again. Yeah. And it's interesting because these things are so elegant and simple. Mm-hmm. And yet when we've been in alarm for a long time sometimes that we really do need the outside help, but it's not.
The outside help to fix. Yeah. It's the outside help to hold
Anna Hartman: space. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. And, and guide you through how to find that safety. And like I said, you're right. And because I do believe in co-regulation is like the best way for this. It is like, yes, going to outsource and that's not, I guess I don't see that as outsourcing.
I say see that as like helping, uh, you know, and the, so, and it goes back again to the intention of the practitioner. Like, are you there to fix and force or are you there to guide and hold space and like share your energy a little bit. So when you're around me, you inherently. Maybe do feel safer in your body without even No.
Like I can lend
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: you, I can lend you my, my hope for you. I can lend you my no, my trust in your nervous system. Yes. I can lend you my trust in the intelligence that your body has. Exactly. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. And, and yeah, I, that's why I was, I was really only, um, articulating that for listeners. 'cause I know that you already meant, meant it in this way.
Um mm-hmm. And it's so funny, this thing about like the word outsource. I a side note that I think that the majority. At least a lot, but maybe the majority of like arguments or disagreements in the world. I think a lot of them come down to us assigning different meaning to words
Anna Hartman: 100%. Right.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Because like I'll use a word through the filter of my entire experience and you'll use it through the filter of yours.
And I'm like, we're not actually disagreeing here. Yeah. Um, we're just using language. Trying to capture, like trying the entirety of experience with language and collapsing it is, is really challenging. Mm-hmm.
Anna Hartman: And then adding in the mix, like people, obviously we both, I think our first language is both English.
It's English, right. When it's not your first language and you're trying to like articulate Oh my gosh. Meaning with people, I'm like, oh my, like there's this quote, I think it's a half quote h the, I don't know who that is, A philosopher maybe. But he was like, it was basically like if only we could be like birds and just like.
Squawk at each other, like, you know, what are words? Like words are so, oh, huffies. Yeah. It's basically like, words are terrible. Like it's challenging. I mean, it, we miss meaning a lot when we're using words, and so it's like we do, there was another way, which actually we just gotta practice. Yeah. You
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: know, practice, body language
Anna Hartman: piece
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: being, being precise with our words.
I, my, when I was a teenager, my dad got me a t-shirt that says, I'm talking and I can't shut up. I'm like, you know, I'll own that. I'm practicing being more coherent and specific with my language. Yeah. But it, it is hard. It is. I mean, I know both of us get people saying, oh, you're so rambly. And I'm like, that's because I'm seeing all the interconnected things and trying to describe this huge
Anna Hartman: concept.
Mm-hmm. It's hard not when you see things as the whole. It's hard not to be ramly. It's true. People who are not ramly, like I think often are just like people who are still in the parts or the reductionism type of thing in the linear Yeah. Looking at the
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: pieces and, and it's like, I recognize and I honor that in order to really become an expert of something very, very precise, you have to like zoom in.
Mm-hmm. Right? There's, there's scientists who spend their entire career 50 years studying like a single protein in a lab. Yeah. But the thing is, if you don't zoom back out and look at now how that fits into the context of actual life, then we are missing a major. And it's okay if you don't do it, but somebody has to come in and do that piece.
And, and that's something I I really, really love and celebrate about you, um, is that you see the the threads of connection Yeah. And the patterns. And I think that we really need more of this systems thinking in, in healthcare and in life because we're taught. In school very specifically to like, sit down, shut up, memorize facts.
Like it's not, we're not taught the systems thinking as much. We're taught, um, information. Yeah. And it's interesting, like even as I've developed the neuro fascial flow professional certification, it's really a, a practice of, okay, not just how do I teach you this lens, but you're all expecting and wanting a protocol because your brain has been trained in information learning.
Mm-hmm. And I'm trying to teach you a new language. I'm trying to teach you to think in a different lens. And it's been such a beautiful thing to watch the, the emergent intelligence that arises and, and the flourishing of these providers and pulling from all their different gifts instead of only, oh, I'm gonna do this protocol from this or this technique from I learned from this seminar or this from this.
And instead be able to. To show up as your fullest expression of, of what you have to share as a healing provider. Yes. Because you're no longer trying to just mimic a bunch of protocols. Exactly.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. I'm like, it's permission. You're giving permission to providers to like, think for themselves, create their own thing, like lean into their uniqueness.
'cause that that's what we should do
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: and have a scaffolding to do it. Yeah. Because you need, like, you need the scaffolding to be able to express your, your right brain, like creative, intuitive stuff through, through a scaffolding that will allow it to become more, um, reproducible.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: More reliable and something that you can actually create a business model around and know what you're offering.
Anna Hartman: Yes, exactly. I think that is so important. And, and you kind of, even the, when we first started the podcast, you even said that as you described, you know, your neuro factoral flow as like. Or maybe it was describing the dural, uh, fascial kinetic chain. It's like, you know, you're not creating anything new.
Like you're just like the five step framework. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The framework. Like you're not creating anything new, but you're just giving it. But I've organized it an organization that honors like these fundamental principles that, you know, and this is, this is kind of the thing too, is like. A lot of times when I'm teaching, people are like, well, this isn't new.
And I'm like, I know, I know. It's not new. Like I, I'm not trying to say it's new. I'm trying to organize it in a way that makes sense that you can actually go and practically apply it. Because what I saw in learning these things that are not new is they were missing the, they were missing the, taking the principal of it context and the context of it.
Mm-hmm. And then letting it be applied practically in everything you do. And that, and that was the biggest, like when I started learning in this more osteopathic world, you know, like I didn't grow up in this. I, I grew up in a, a, my, my grandpa was a physician. Like I grew him in a, in a very allopathic sense, you know?
But it's like when I started learning all this osteopathic stuff, I was like, wow, these have really opposing some fundamental opposing laws. And I was like, if I'm gonna really like honor this, I have to like. See if these laws apply in this world and this world. Can I apply these laws in this world and what actually works?
And it was like, oh, actually these don't work in this world, but these work in this world too. And so it was like, okay, so that seems more true to me. So now that I see that, that's the actual truth. How do I help people apply this practically and not just by it being a bunch of
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: learning and that, and I gotta say that that matters a lot.
I, I recently, this is, I recently was having a conversation with Tom Myers, the author of Anatomy Trains. And we talked about a lot of things we're on the foot for a while, but one of the things is I was sharing with him about the dural, fascial kinetic chain. Yeah. And the five step process. And he said to me, he's like, there's nothing new under the sun.
Like the technique is just the technique, like the container, the safety. Like everybody knows that that's not, and I'm like, yeah, but we're not. That's what I said. I was like, do they like, they're definitely not. Sure. Like nervous system regulation is becoming more trendy. And we're talking about like safety, but what does that even mean?
Right? Like, I'm not just talking about emotional and psychological safety. I'm talking about somatic safety. How do we, how do we send signals that the tissue, that the cells feel safe? Yeah. And that's, that's one piece of the conversation that's unique. But another, you know, it, it almost sent me into a bit of a spiral after our phone call.
I was like, am I doing something unique? Like what am I bringing to the table here? Right. And that actually turned into what was originally 40 pages, but I brought it down to a 15 piece, uh, 15 page clinical thought piece. Yeah. Really looking at the neuro fascial flow paradigm and, and the paradigm shift that we need as, as a healthcare culture to, to influence our capacity to.
Like I said, instead of trying to fix things for people, honor the, the starting philosophy that says the body's self-healing. Like if you think the body's self-healing is self-regulating, then course. Yeah. What are we doing micromanaging it. Like, excuse me. It's, it's like, how can I consistently, going back to what I said about doing magic more consistently, if you understand science, that's really the beauty mm-hmm.
Of like what you've put together is how to unravel these tension patterns in a way that is listening to the body and looking at the, the sequence that is so crucially important. Not the same sequence on everyone, but I love that you carry in the osteopathic listening to be able to say, well, how do I figure out the, the sequence for this person, this piece that needs to be unwound in this moment.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: in a, in a parallel but different way with neuro fascial flow, we look at. Well, on a systems wide, you know, looking at the, the central nervous system, what does the system need to receive any of that individual change? And these are such crucial, um, I think such crucial conversations to be having.
Anna Hartman: Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Around how we show up as healers for people, because it's not, you know, Tom said to me, he's like, yeah, people have been working on the fascia and the legs to reduce spinal cord tension for so long. Like, look at these old books. And I'm like, sure. How many people are actually doing that? And cool, because differential calculus was invented, discovered whatever, on two different.
You know, in two different countries, but two different people at the same time. Because the truth is, the truth is the truth and all paths lead to home and, and we are all just, I think, you know, emerging research is suggesting, and I believe that we're just tuning into the consciousness that exists, the collective consciousness.
And then I'm coming back to the prism, like, I am a different prism than you are and I'm filtering it in a way that hopefully will bring some coherent language Yeah. To this experience that, that makes sense naturally. Like whether I was, whether I'm talking to patients or I'm talking to providers who wanna learn from me, I'm like, I don't want you to listen to me blindly.
Yeah. I want whatever you're gonna follow, like needs to go through your own internal sense of that makes sense. That makes like there's an inner intuition that resonates and goes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. This is, this makes sense. And to providers, like if you can't explain what you're doing to patients in a way that makes sense, that's, that's a way of, of taking away their agency.
And like even just by being able to describe my work in a way that they can reach for it, instead of me saying, oh, this is just what you need. This is just what's gonna fix you. I don't have to convince and do sales if I speak from a way, in a way that people can resonate and go, oh, that's what I need.
And they reach for it. And even that in itself is healing.
Anna Hartman: Absolutely. Well, and that, that is, that goes back to the agency piece and, and because like a lot of people are like, wow, I always ask people in the mentor my mentorship, I'm like, you know, to journal about it. Like what does truth feel like in your body?
And it's like, if you don't know what that feels like in your body yet, you need to spend some time thinking about that. Because then I'm going to say that I would rather you trust. That than me and like, don't believe me. I want you to feel it to be true in your own body. Because if you can't feel it to be true in your own body too, then it's probably not the truth.
And it's okay if I'm saying something wrong. I like, yeah, I make mistake
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: and, and gently it. Yeah. Maybe the truth for some people, but maybe it's not what their system resonates in this moment.
Anna Hartman: Exactly. And
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: that's valid too.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. It's a constant like changing thing. So it's not necessarily you're wrong, Anna.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yes, that's true. Yes, that's true. But like, you know, we also need to connect with providers that there's a very human element to this that you need to have resonance mm-hmm. With the person in order for your system to even trust them to do like five different people could do the same technical technique.
Mm-hmm. But because of the frequency of who I am. Yeah. How that interacts with the frequency of who the client is like that, that's. Where it's very appropriate to filter that in the beginning. Yeah. And not end up in a therapeutic relationship that isn't gonna be productive because inherently your, your beings just don't resonate.
Anna Hartman: Just don't, yeah. Just don't connect. Yeah. I think that's so true, which is
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: why it's so beautiful to connect with other providers who do similar things. Yeah. And say, oh, here's an option for you. Right. It's not about, it's not like, if I'm not the right person and I take and I try to like sell that person into my care, that's gonna hugely drain my energy and reduce how much capacity I have for the people that.
Ready to show up in the way and be met in the way that I can do.
Anna Hartman: Yeah,
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: I
Anna Hartman: love
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: that. Uh,
Anna Hartman: so, so many things align and as expected, I was like, oh, we could probably talk for hours. Yes, we could probably talk for hours, which is why you need to like, make coming to live in San Diego for a while, make make it work.
Um, but um, because we are coming on an hour, I do wanna like wrap it up for, for our people. Uh, so you kind of mentioned, you mentioned a few things when we were talking, you know, you have, um, the paper that you wrote.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. So that, that clinical thought piece mm-hmm. Is, is really about this hidden pattern shaping modern resilience, like looking at a unified framework to, to understand the structural neurological shifts that are altering, how bodies are responding and recovering and reorganizing.
And, and specifically looking at how the dural fascial kinetic chain interacts with the, with the autonomic. System. Mm-hmm. Um, so I have that. It's, I'm happy to share it. We'll put the link in the show notes here. Yes. I'm
Anna Hartman: gonna have Joe put the link in the show notes for people so they can sign up for that and download it.
Because then it, you also have some emails that go like along with it, right? Yeah.
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: Yeah. So it's, this is all evolving quickly. So this paper was inspired originally by that conversation with Tom and it's taking on a life of its own. Um, and so I have a series of, I don't know, it's like five or six emails, like a, a clinical deepening that follows.
So when you click the link and drop your email, it'll send you the full PDF right away and then you'll get a couple of those Yeah. Clinical deepening emails. And it's going to evolve in the new year into, 'cause I'm seeing the need for this, um, for the first time ever, providers don't need to fully go into the six month certification program yet.
Yeah. Before having a. Clinical deep dive workshop. We're gonna do a two hour workshop in early January on the dural, fascial kinetic chain specifically. Yeah. Um, and so I'm really excited to be able to share that. And I am going to extend, I, I, I don't remember, I think it's like a hundred dollars or something, but I'm gonna extend for all the listeners of this podcast, you'll have a special code through Anna to do 50% off savings on that, just because I want this to, you know, I wanna put this in the hands of as many providers as possible.
So I'm, I'm delighted to, to share that with your community, Anna, and thank you. And for all the listeners, if, if you know aligned providers who could, um, who could wanna dive into this, I would say share the paradigm guide first. Mm-hmm. And. Sign up for that ASAP 'cause I don't know how long. I'm gonna leave it up in once January hits and we go into the workshop series.
Gotcha. Um, but I will link that here right now, and if anybody happens to be listening to this way later, uh, you can always find me on Instagram and, and find my most UpToDate resources there as well.
Anna Hartman: Cool. Yeah, we'll definitely put all those links in and I will be there on your January workshop for sure.
'cause like I said, like the piece at the Fascial Research Congress was just a ta, like barely a taster. Oh my gosh. I'm excited to learn. Trying
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: to fit into 20 minutes was insane. Originally, it, I actually was scheduled for 40 minutes originally, and then the organizers decided that they wanted to. They're like, we can't choose between all of the awesome things, so we're just gonna cut everybody down to 20 minutes.
And that's why, that's why it felt like a fire hose. I was, I was talking to a lot of other presenters for 40, or Yeah. A lot of us were prepared for 40 minutes and then got told, oh no, it's 20 minutes, but you gotta do the same topic. You, you like proposed. And so it was, uh, you know, I'm, it was delightful to connect with so many people.
Yeah. And just get the ball rolling. And honestly, I, I do think that's the beauty of a lot of these events is, oh, wonder is saying, you know, oh, I've gotta go connect with that person. Mm-hmm. And so I'm, I'm so excited. This is just the beginning, um, yeah. Of, of our parallel, um, you know, convergence of Absolutely.
Of what we're sharing in the world. And I think that's really. Um, what's important is the, the connection also between providers because it can feel really like you're an island Absolutely. Once you get out, out into practice. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's this really weird energy around like, competitiveness.
Mm-hmm. Or like, oh, you know, I, I just remember my dad encouraging me. He's like, you should know all of the other chiropractors in town and what they're really good at so that you know when to refer to them. Absolutely. And so I'm, I'm wholeheartedly so excited to share your work with my community and, and I'm delighted to share my work with yours.
And I think we're just gonna, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships and Absolutely. I love it. We amplify our collective impact, you know, when we, when we come together and share resources, so, absolutely. I'm very excited to share these resources, uh, and, and. Delighted that you're all helping to share this far and wide.
Yeah.
Anna Hartman: Cool. Well, thank you so much. Oh, one last thing. What is your Instagram handle? We'll link in the show notes. My Instagram
Dr. Satya Sardonicus: is, it's at Dr. Satya Wellness, D-R-S-A-T-Y-A. Wellness. Awesome. And, and I'm on, on Instagram and TikTok. My website's dr satya wellness.com. So you can always find resources there.
It's, it's really my mission to take the. Tremendous gift of all of the really incredible healers that I was raised by. Yeah. And that I've learned from over the years. And, and it's really my intention to, um, stand on their shoulders and, and make this, uh, make this easier for the next generation. Yeah. And, and just contribute to our collective knowing and, and evolving.
So thank you for, for inviting me here and, and holding the space for this. It gets tremendous. Yeah.
Anna Hartman: You're welcome. Thank you so much. So, yep. Uh, thank you everybody for listening. Um, you know, if you, if you listen and love it, definitely let us know on Instagram and, uh, share with friends and, uh, we'll see you next time.